Tweeters - On the inside or outside?

MetalJonesy

more metal, more booze!!!
Hey guys,

Im currently running my passives with the tweeters on the outside (like most NS10 users) however, the comb filtering is slightly annoying at times. Now the blurb in my manual tells me to mount em tweeters in, and this is the detail given in the manual:

Why not place tweeters to the outside?
The “classic” studio monitor layout used to be that the tweeters be placed to the outside of a horizontally-oriented speaker. In the past, this configuration was actually beneficial in time aligning the tweeter with the woofer if the cabinets were not toed-in toward the listener. (But they usually are, which makes time alignment worse if tweeters are on the outside.) In addition, this configuration is highly prone to comb filtering effects if the listener’s head is moved from side-to-side while mixing. This “comb filtering” causes the mid to-high frequency tones to get louder, then softer, then louder again as you move your head from side-to-side, making it very confusing when trying to mix with precision.

Some people still believe that stereo separation is “improved” with tweeters to the outside, but this is advice left over from the early days (the sixties) of stereo recordings when “correct” stereo often meant a complete hard right or hard left placement of an instrument (or singer). As stereo mixing techniques changed toward placing the vocalist (for example) in the center, the old “tweeters-out” orientation would indeed widen the image if one’s head were kept in the exact center position. But this set-up proves to be very tiring, very quickly for the recording engineer. And, to others who are listening to the mix from either side of the engineer, the sound will seem to be coming primarily from the speaker closest to them. Fortunately, recording techniques have changed radically since the sixties. Engineers have learned to how to “place” an instrument or singer within the mix so that an accurate re-creation of the actual instrument and vocal positioning (left-to-right and front-to-back) is achieved. In the Monitor One Mk2, advances in crossover design technologies and improvements in the off-axis response of tweeter domes and woofer cone materials and profile have made the requirement for tweeters to be placed to the outside of the cabinet obsolete. In fact, using a non-toed-in, tweeters-out orientation with a modern, wide dispersion design like the Monitor One Mk2 will increase the likelihood of hearing unwanted first reflections and a variety of phase anomalies in your mix.

So, proper tweeter orientation is toward the stereo image center (the middle) as shown. This arrangement will promote a strongly focused center image (such as for the vocals). And because the (vocal) image width will be narrower than if the speakers are placed vertically, it will be possible to place the vocalist with great precision at stage center. In this orientation there will be much less chance of first reflections from either sidewalls or the console coloring your mix.

Now that to me is very convincing!

What do you guys think? they are at ear level on monitor stands
 
Makes a shit-ton of sense to me. I've noticed the comb filtering phenomena on home speakers with the tweeters on the outside. Quite annoying even with passive listening.
 
I used to run my tweeters on the outside (Alesis Monitor One's - First version (MkI)). Lately I've been standing the speakers upright putting the tweeter above the woofer. My thinking is that there is less of an issue as you lean forward and backward while working (as mentioned above). I never tried tweeters in though. Might be interesting to try.
 
the MKIs are pretty different sounding, what with the different drivers and tweeters, they do have similar characteristics, as me mate has a pair of the MK1s) i used to have them upright, but they were below ear level.

I'm thinking of giving this a shot tomorrow, as i know these monitors inside out, so can't do any harm!
 
i read that "why not place tweeters inside" thingy on the Alesis MKII's manual. those were my first monitors. they sucked so much! i had them tweeters outside, inside, covering the holes, not covering, ear level, face level...unbelievable!

but i recently tried the ns-10's and they were placed tweeters outside, and i could hear the stereo field just great. i felt in love with those darn things.
 
Tweeters above woofers for me. Horizontal causes a lot of comb filtering problems at the crossover as you move side to side (along a console for example), vertical bypasses this unless you're addicted to messing with your wheely chair!
 
It makes sense for the tweeters to be on the inside, but you will have to position your monitors at an angle. Basically you will angle the monitors so that the tweeters are towards the middle but they are farther away from you. The point is you are trying to make the sound from the tweeter and the mid-woofer to be in phase. If you have active monitors then this might be done electronically in the built-in amplifier circuitry. Some monitors do this physically by having the tweeter positioned behind the woofer, such as seen in the KRK 7000 monitors (stepped baffle). In a stepped baffle configuration you just need to align the voice coils.