Two questions regarding compression

[DanLights]

So I didn't want to make two different threads so I'll make my two question here, and hope someone is kind enough to help me with them:

1.- I seem to have a hard time judging if a sound is "too compressed" or "not compressed enough", specially with drum sounds. Any tips I should be on the lookout for? any give-aways to realize this?

2.- I've heard somewhere of people using compression on programmed drums. This kinda doesn't make sense to me because from what I know compression is about leveling the volumes of the hits, but with programmed drums, wouldn't any small kind of dynamics be totally intentional? why would I want to even out hits on a sound I intentionally made with different hit velocities for the "human" factor? I've heard talk about a snare sample being "too compressed", how is this? this holds connection to my first question, how do I know when a snare sample is "too compressed" or "could use more compression"?

 

[Morgan C]

1st question is just a matter of experience and training your ears, no real easy way about it I'm afraid, but hopefully my answer to the 2nd question will help.

2nd question; this is something I picked up here.. I looked at countless other websites, all of which said compressors are for evening out volume. Then I came on here, and saw someone posted that you can use compression to increase attack - I mean its obvious if you think about it, and you'll eventually figure it out, but for some reason no-one really comments on this use of a compressor.

Set the attack on a snare drum to 20-30ms, which will let the initial transient through, then play with the release to get it sounding good, maybe 100ms, sometimes really short (20ms) if you want super punchy drums that aren't programmed.

So when drums are 'too compressed', they have too much transient and not enough body. Or, if you listen to the latest Dream Theater album, just off the top of my head, the drums aren't so much 'overcompressed' as compressed with too short an attack. You can hear that they've used like a 10ms or perhaps even 5ms attack on the snare, and you get that 'click', followed by the rest of the transient, followed by the body.

 

[DanLights]

haven't heard the new dream theater yet, but thanks for that explanation, exactly the kind of answer I was hoping for. I was thinking it would have to do something with the attack and release time. Thanks a lot man

 

[greyskull]

you can really hear it on vocals

 

[DerMetzgermeister]

From a thread at Reaper's forum:

Originally posted by yep (underlined and edited by me):
"Bringing this all back to compression, it is absolutely standard operating procedure to use more than one instance of compression on every track. And compression does NOT automatically mean killing dynamics-- compression can actually make a track MORE dynamic.

Unless you're doing live broadcast work, there is no reason to use compression as an automated volume control to adjust the differences between loud and quiet passages. Fader automation is much easier and much more flexible these days. Use automation to even out the overall performance, and compression to affect the sound and the sense of intensity and performance vibe.

....

Compression is a big part of what makes a record sound "right" at a variety of playback volumes. It's not about making things sound louder or quieter so much as making them sound proportionate and "right" in a dynamic sense. It is the closest that a mix engineer gets to actually playing an instrument, because it affects the sound in exactly the same ways that a really good singer or player does-- it alters the texture and tone of the sound in real-time, dynamic ways. "

 

[darthjujuu]

sometimes snares in metal get so ridiculously squashed it doesn't even sound anything like a snare anymore. it ends up not even being a game of dynamics, just going for that tell-tale "squashed" snare sound. eg: the faceless, on the CD akeldama, snare is so squished it sounds like.. well, i don't know. to see what i mean, plop rcomp (or any compressor) on a snare and drag the threshold down to like... -40 db. see what i mean? doesn't even sound like a drum anymore. the point is, overcompression can dramatically alter the character of any sound beyond just normalizing the dynamics.

 

[AdamWathan]

Automating the volume on a vocal track vs compressing it seems like the most time consuming tedious shit ever... Drawing in envelope points like every 100ms and adjusting each syllable to get things at an even volume seems ridiculous to me when I can just use a look ahead compressor and have it done automatically :/ Stillwell Rocket is a godsend for me when mixing vocals.

 

[greyskull]

yeah fuck that RIGHT up the shitter.

 

[Metaltastic]

I always slam vocals, but then automate to finish the tweaking

 

[Melodeath]

Automating the volume on a vocal track vs compressing it seems like the most time consuming tedious shit ever... Drawing in envelope points like every 100ms and adjusting each syllable to get things at an even volume seems ridiculous to me when I can just use a look ahead compressor and have it done automatically :/ Stillwell Rocket is a godsend for me when mixing vocals.

This is true, but it's not what "yep" from the Reaper forum was saying.

I think what "yep" is saying is that if you have a quiet snare section and a loud snare section, and you need them to be more even, you should automate the volume, instead of just compressing the whole track. This is quite a different situationt hat the vocal one you mentioned.

 

[DerMetzgermeister]

Automating the volume on a vocal track vs compressing it seems like the most time consuming tedious shit ever... Drawing in envelope points like every 100ms and adjusting each syllable to get things at an even volume seems ridiculous to me when I can just use a look ahead compressor and have it done automatically :/ Stillwell Rocket is a godsend for me when mixing vocals.

He is talking about loud and quiet passages. Not syllables.

 

[Melodeath]

^^ Right

My "snare" thing was just an example.

 

[madmuso]

sometimes snares in metal get so ridiculously squashed it doesn't even sound anything like a snare anymore. it ends up not even being a game of dynamics, just going for that tell-tale "squashed" snare sound. eg: the faceless, on the CD akeldama, snare is so squished it sounds like.. well, i don't know. to see what i mean, plop rcomp (or any compressor) on a snare and drag the threshold down to like... -40 db. see what i mean? doesn't even sound like a drum anymore. the point is, overcompression can dramatically alter the character of any sound beyond just normalizing the dynamics.

Very good points mentioned, especialy about compression altering the character as well as dynamics. The reason is because sounds or "a sound" such as a snare hit are made up of different freq's at different volumes, when you hit a snare drum the freq's that make up that sound are not all produced at the same volume. So this is why even if you compress a sampled drum hit it will alter its character, the compressor will push harder against certain freq's and pull up others, thus changing its character.

The biggest problem people have with compressors are the attack and release times. A good mate of mine gave me a tip to help with that.
To hear better what the attack setting is actualy doing while you turn the knob try this: Lower the threshold so you have plenty of signal (gain reduction) going through the compressor, dont be shy, set the ratio to the highest setting, set the release time to as quick as it will go, adjust the makeup gain/output so you can hear whats going on, now play the audio (preferably a mic'd snare hit for this excercise) and adjust the attack knob. I usualy start with the attack knob on the slowest setting. Listen to the initial transient and attack of the snare hit while you turn the knob, (ignore the pumping you may hear, this will be rectified once the other settings are returned to normal, just concentrate on the attack). With this technique you'll notice its a lot easier to hear how the attack setting is affecting the audio, once you've got the attack setting where you want, move onto the release time. Then adjust the ratio and threshold, etc.

cheers