US: HR 1256

[JBroll]

H.R. 1256: Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (GovTrack.us)

It's so good that the Obama presidency and current batch of Congressmen are doing all they can to make our lives better by taking away choices.

I'm also comforted by the fact that they certainly can't be a tool of businesses like Philip Morris, who would benefit greatly from the death of smaller tobacconists and manufacturers as long as they can pretend that they want to be regulated equally - after all, they're not the ones who gave the industry a bad name, right? It was those bastards who make Djarum Blacks and Nat Shermans who marketed to children by only being in specialty tobacco shops inaccessible to those under 18, and the hookah lounges who put their adverts on every other billboard and in sporting stadiums, not the biggest companies on the market - since when do they advertise everywhere and have all of their products available at every gas station, Wal-Mart, and grocery store in the bloody country?

After all, they only have the 'public good' in mind, so it's not like they're framing blowjobs for corporate interests as massive victories for Families and Children Everywhere. No, this is certainly not going to benefit an organization that has pumped billions into legislators, given all tobacco users and producers a bad name by association, and done all it could to mislead its customers - that would just make it too easy to be a cynical bastard with no hope left in the public's ability to pay attention to the real consequences of a single fucking thing at all.

It's also great how clearly-worded the concepts, like this one summarized from Section 101, are:

Allows the Secretary to restrict: (1) the sale or distribution of tobacco products if appropriate for the protection of the public health;

I mean, how wonderful is it that such clear directives are being given to a body that has done so well at making sure the food and drugs on the market are safe? And nothing at all about it is arbitrary or poorly-chosen - of course menthols, which are made of sunshine and hugging bunnies (and not advertised, put in misleadingly child-oriented boxes, or promoted by specific social groups and adopted by young smokers frequently), have more reason to exist than clove cigarettes. Thinking otherwise would be silly.

It's great to finally believe in hope and change.

Jeff

 

[AudioPhile777]

I'll keep my guns and my freedom... everyone who voted for Obama can have their change...

 

[J.DavisNJ]

I'll keep my guns and my freedom... everyone who voted for Obama can have their change...

+1 billion.

Everyone knows what smoking does to you. If you smoke, then you accept the potential consequences. The government has ZERO right meddling in this. This is not a surprise coming from Obama.

Our country is going down the shitter faster than I could even believe. I knew Obama and his cronies were going to attempt to turn our country into a liberal, pseudo-socialist state, but I'm amazed at how fast it's happening.

-Joe

 

[J.DavisNJ]

And before anyone jumps on me for supporting smoking, it's not like that. I will have the occasional cigarette and do know the consequences of smoking. The point is, our government shouldn't have the power to pass ridiculous laws about PERSONAL CHOICES regarding tobacco. It is more of a principle thing for me. The fact that they are so quickly and blatantly exercising this type of power is downright SCARY. I know most people will flub it off and say "eh, no big deal," but I'm inclined to believe that those people can't grasp the full scope of what is going on and what will happen in the future.

"USSA" seems like a fitting name. :-(



-Joe

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

I like smoking.

 

[egan.]

+1 billion.

Everyone knows what smoking does to you. If you smoke, then you accept the potential consequences. The government has ZERO right meddling in this. This is not a surprise coming from Obama.

Our country is going down the shitter faster than I could even believe. I knew Obama and his cronies were going to attempt to turn our country into a liberal, pseudo-socialist state, but I'm amazed at how fast it's happening.

-Joe

Right b/c there are 298 democrats in the house and 79 in the senate....oh wait no there aren't. The nays are almost all from tobacco growing states (including mine which went for Obama). The Texas and Alabama senators voted for this bill. I think it's fair to say this isn't a party lines issue.

BTW one of the things the bill does is:
"-Prohibits the FDA from banning existing tobacco products or requiring that they eliminate nicotine (Sec. 101)."

No one is banning smoking except for the local governments in most major cities.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Right b/c there are 298 democrats in the house and 79 in the senate....oh wait no there aren't. The nays are almost all from tobacco growing states (including mine which went for Obama).

BTW one of the things the bill does is:
"-Prohibits the FDA from banning existing tobacco products or requiring that they eliminate nicotine (Sec. 101)."

Then why? I really don't see the benefit that this bill will have if passed at some point.

-Joe

 

[jrt12]

I'll keep my guns and my freedom... everyone who voted for Obama can have their change...

change? obama only says the last part of the quote. i believe his true tagline is "Can you spare any change?"

but thats a whole 'nother point. i sick of the fuckin left talking so much shit about rights and freedoms, and then turning around and saying you cant smoke, you cant eat trans fats, you cant buy a gun. blah blah blah. freedoms my ass.... they can lick my left nut.

btw - i dont even smoke cigarettes, but their hypocrisy still pisses me off

 

[egan.]

Then why? I really don't see the benefit that this bill will have if passed at some point.
-Joe

Honestly I'm not completely sure Joe. It seems to mostly be about advertising, warning labels, transparency and the ability to "assess fees for FDA oversight."

Here are the highlights from the site Jeff linked to.

Highlights from Project Vote Smart

The following is Project Vote Smart's highlights for this bill, generously made available by PVS:
The following summary was for the Passage for this bill on 2009-04-02. The bill may have changed since then.
-Grants the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) power to regulate tobacco products (Sec. 101).
-Requires tobacco product manufacturers to disclose all ingredients in its products, the form and delivery method of nicotine, and any research into the health, toxicological, behavioral, or physiologic effects of tobacco products to the FDA and notify the FDA of any future changes to any of the above (Sec. 101).
-Requires tobacco manufacturers to release all marketing research documents to the FDA (Sec. 101).
-Requires tobacco manufacturers to notify the FDA of any future changes to the ingredients of their products (Sec. 101).
-Requires all owners and operators of companies manufacturing or processing tobacco products to register with the Secretary of Health and Human Services and to be inspected once every two years (Sec. 101).
-Prohibits the FDA from banning existing tobacco products or requiring that they eliminate nicotine (Sec. 101).
-Requires FDA review of new tobacco products before they can go to market unless they are similar to products marketed before February 15, 2007 (Sec. 101).
-Bans companies from promoting products as lower-risk alternatives to traditional tobacco unless the FDA certifies that its sale is likely to improve public health (Sec. 101).
-Establishes a mechanism to assess fees on tobacco companies and traders to finance FDA oversight of the industry (Sec. 101).
-Orders a study on the public health implications of raising the minimum age to purchase tobacco products (Sec. 104).
-Requires the Secretary of Health and Human Services to create a plan relating to enforce restrictions on the advertising and promotion of menthol and other cigarettes to minors (Sec. 105).
-Mandates larger, more varied, and more prominent warning labels on tobacco products (Secs. 201, 204).

For the record I empathize with the "if I'm not hurting anyone else..." libertarian view. But I'm also ok with these things being more expensive to cover the back end expenses to the health industry which affect us all now (through our insurance premiums). I'd really love to see an effective monitoring/taxing system for tobacco (which doesn't exist yet) adapted to replace our dysfunctional drug policy.

 

[egan.]

change? obama only says the last part of the quote. i believe his true tagline is "Can you spare any change?"

but thats a whole 'nother point. i sick of the fuckin left talking so much shit about rights and freedoms, and then turning around and saying you cant smoke, you cant eat trans fats, you cant buy a gun. blah blah blah. freedoms my ass.... they can lick my left nut.
btw - i dont even smoke cigarettes, but their hypocrisy still pisses me off

Ok. Clearly you didn't read the bill. Clearly you didn't read my post either. For the record John McCain voted for this bill. Where are these transfat and gun banning bills? Didn't James Brady work for Reagan?
If you want to bitch about rhetoric then by all means quit using it and present facts.

 

[iekobrid]

I really don't see the benefit that this bill will have if passed at some point.

1. It makes elected officials look like they give a crap about the well being of their constituents. (see: most pointless legislation proposed every year)

2. Congress reckons it's about to get into the health insurance business. Smoking costs insurers big money.

3. It brings tobacco regulations more in line with those the FDA already has for restricting the content, storage, packaging, shipment of everyday food products (limits on rat droppings in Spaghettios, for example). Tobacco has previously been mostly above such laws. (Careful what you wish for, marijuana legalization supporters!)

 

[Nitronium Blood]

So much fighting over drugs and guns. Tsk Tsk.

Can't we all just get along and make some awesome Pizza for each other?

 

[jrt12]

Ok. Clearly you didn't read the bill. Clearly you didn't read my post either. For the record John McCain voted for this bill. Where are these transfat and gun banning bills? Didn't James Brady work for Reagan?
If you want to bitch about rhetoric then by all means quit using it and present facts.

its not rhetoric, i just dont want to spend the time writing a 4 page treatise on my disgust. i have better things to do, in short... Illinois and New York have already enacted bills to ban things like trans fats. States like CA only allow people to smoke in their bedroom closets, with the windows closed and lights off. its horseshit that a party that preaches freedoms and rights push for more govt control and less individual choice.

of all the problems our country is facing today, i'm glad we're spending time fighting smoking? yea.. and pushing for caloric content labels, and investigating whether athletes are taking drugs.

and for the record, i only voted for mccain because he was the lesser of 2 lame asses.

 

[Nitronium Blood]

its not rhetoric, i just dont want to spend the time writing a 4 page treatise on my disgust. i have better things to do, in short... Illinois and New York have already enacted bills to ban things like trans fats. States like CA only allow people to smoke in their bedroom closets, with the windows closed and lights off. its horseshit that a party that preaches freedoms and rights push for more govt control and less individual choice.

and for the record, i only voted for mccain because he was the lesser of 2 lame asses.

He was accepted by the University of Edinburgh to study history at the age of only 16. He suffered a retinal detachment after being kicked in the head during an end-of-term rugby union match at his old school. He was left blind in his left eye, despite treatment including several operations and lying in a darkened room for weeks at a time. Later at Edinburgh, while playing tennis, he noticed the same symptoms in his right eye. Brown underwent experimental surgery at Edinburgh Royal Infirmary and his eye was saved. Brown graduated from Edinburgh with First Class Honours MA in 1972, and stayed on to complete his PhD (which he gained in 1982), titled The Labour Party and Political Change in Scotland 1918-29.

 

[iekobrid]

He was accepted by the University of Edinburgh to study history at the age of only 16. He suffered a retinal detachment after being kicked in the head during an end-of-term rugby union match at his old school. He was left blind in his left eye, despite treatment including several operations and lying in a darkened room for weeks at a time. Later at Edinburgh, while playing tennis, he noticed the same symptoms in his right eye. Brown underwent experimental surgery at Edinburgh Royal Infirmary and his eye was saved. Brown graduated from Edinburgh with First Class Honours MA in 1972, and stayed on to complete his PhD (which he gained in 1982), titled The Labour Party and Political Change in Scotland 1918-29.

So there.

 

[Metaltastic]

He was accepted by the University of Edinburgh to study history at the age of only 16. He suffered a retinal detachment after being kicked in the head during an end-of-term rugby union match at his old school. He was left blind in his left eye, despite treatment including several operations and lying in a darkened room for weeks at a time. Later at Edinburgh, while playing tennis, he noticed the same symptoms in his right eye. Brown underwent experimental surgery at Edinburgh Royal Infirmary and his eye was saved. Brown graduated from Edinburgh with First Class Honours MA in 1972, and stayed on to complete his PhD (which he gained in 1982), titled The Labour Party and Political Change in Scotland 1918-29.

Hahahahahaha, holy shit dude

 

[JBroll]

The big cause for concern is that this bill will be slamming practically everyone *but* Philip Morris, who is backing it very strongly. There are a few redeeming qualities (a bill of that size is all but guaranteed to have them) but this is something that'll benefit PM in an unbelievable way - so either the legislature *and* executive branch have been amazingly deceived or (more likely) they've been completely bought out.

Everything about this is suspicious - it really is just an attack on our freedoms disguised as protection for the children (oh, will someone think of the children?) that happens to benefit a company who is near the top of companies throwing money at the legislature. Cloves need to be banned by name, but of course rat poison doesn't - it's not like Philip Morris prefers chemicals with names we can't even pronounce over 'natural flavorings' like cloves in their cigarettes.

It's not just Obama who gets bought and sold - it's everyone, and pretending that we could change the system by giving it that false sense of validity and hopefulness it craves so badly was the kind of scam that would make even the proudest televangelist green with envy.

Jeff

 

[egan.]

its not rhetoric, i just dont want to spend the time writing a 4 page treatise on my disgust. i have better things to do, in short... Illinois and New York have already enacted bills to ban things like trans fats. States like CA only allow people to smoke in their bedroom closets, with the windows closed and lights off. its horseshit that a party that preaches freedoms and rights push for more govt control and less individual choice.

of all the problems our country is facing today, i'm glad we're spending time fighting smoking? yea.. and pushing for caloric content labels, and investigating whether athletes are taking drugs.

I don't disagree with the second half.

However you are clearly just reciting rhetoric when you lament liberals banning trans-fats despite the fact that a trans-fat banning bill passed in Texas last month or about smoking bans when we have them in North Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia and Arkansas (granted not to the degree of CA).

The problem is that you are compartmentalizing these issues.

But more to the point, I was pointing out that you clearly responded to an assumption of what this bill was without actually reading it and blamed it on a President who didn't write it.

And while it doesn't change folks opinions. iekobrid's point above is correct, that all of these issues are tied to the healthcare crisis.

 

[egan.]

The big cause for concern is that this bill will be slamming practically everyone *but* Philip Morris, who is backing it very strongly.
Jeff

Jeff, can you explain the how? Is it just that they are the best equipped to handle FDA "fees"?

 

[JBroll]

Egan, I think you're compartmentalizing yourself - the Republicans and Democrats are both expanding government power, the difference is only that one party wants to kill brown people and the other wants to kill babies.

As for the PM advantage... other companies that rely on specialty tobaccos for a large part of their business are just completely out of luck. Considering that PM dominates the 'gas-station' brands, and their only soon-to-be-banned cigarettes are unheard of and worthless anyway, they won't be facing what someone like Nat Sherman is about to deal with.

Jeff