Interesting discussion over at the PPUSA forum
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/progpower-usa/824097-us-touring-halted.html
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/progpower-usa/824097-us-touring-halted.html
US touring and more.....
- Thread starter Symphony
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Power_Metal_Dom
Epic Metaller
The solution might be America needs to get to grips with its metal and start kicking out some decent power metal bands of its own. It's happened, there have recently been some up-and-comers with potential but the movement is small.
It's a similar story for bands like ourselves in Europe to be honest. The upcoming trek in October will cost us in the region of £2000-£2500, with no label support. You can't rely on much in the way of merchandise sales these days either, so it's pretty much a guaranteed financial loss before you even start.
Powerray
Member
1928
Jack Nippleson
- May 13, 2007
- 2,789
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A touring discussion I can legitimately participate in! 
Yeah, unfortunately I've been thinking the same thing. It started off with Edguy's abysmal turnout in Chicago in 2009. They didn't come back for Age of the Joker. Stratovarius had a horrendous turnout two weeks later as well. They didn't come back for Elysium. Helloween didn't come touring for 7 Sinners even with Stratovarius as support, you'd think that tour would've been a killer draw even over here. Nope.
Blind Guardian and Iced Earth get amazing reception over here in the US, as do Kamelot and Nightwish of course, but those are about it. Sonata Arctica has been making the rounds frequently since their first US tour for Winterheart's Guild, so I expect they'll be back. Dragonforce hit their peak during the Inhuman Rampage and Ultra Beatdown touring years -- case in point, at the show I went to in spring, my friend (who had been to the same venue 4 years ago) said the venue was twice as packed as it was that night with Marc. Not good.
Rhapsody had a blast playing here in June, but the turnout was less than impressive (though, to be honest, better than I expected it to be), so I have no idea how that's going to affect us later on. I'd be miserable if they didn't come back though.
Oh, and Epica seems to do pretty well for themselves somehow, as they're coming back in November. Third time in 2 years, not bad.
And of course all the other great bands just can't afford to come here (Power Quest being the one I'm mainly talking about). Simply put, the US blows for metal as a whole and touring for those bands. Hell, even if the bands do come here, they won't even go to certain places - Florida for example, because it's just out of the way and costs a lot to travel down and back for one or two cities. On top of that, the one good festival the US has going for it (PPUSA) seems to be having trouble, so that might not last for long.
Another issue is probably the economy, but it seems like power metal has always had trouble touring here, so who knows. But even though I don't know the specifics, I do know it costs a hell of a lot to bring a band overseas and tour this massive country.
It's depressing. I want to see so many of these bands, especially before they get too old or call it a day (here's looking at you, Helloween), but unless I move to Europe it's going to be really hard. What I'd give just to go to Wacken or Bloodstock once...
Yeah, unfortunately I've been thinking the same thing. It started off with Edguy's abysmal turnout in Chicago in 2009. They didn't come back for Age of the Joker. Stratovarius had a horrendous turnout two weeks later as well. They didn't come back for Elysium. Helloween didn't come touring for 7 Sinners even with Stratovarius as support, you'd think that tour would've been a killer draw even over here. Nope.
Blind Guardian and Iced Earth get amazing reception over here in the US, as do Kamelot and Nightwish of course, but those are about it. Sonata Arctica has been making the rounds frequently since their first US tour for Winterheart's Guild, so I expect they'll be back. Dragonforce hit their peak during the Inhuman Rampage and Ultra Beatdown touring years -- case in point, at the show I went to in spring, my friend (who had been to the same venue 4 years ago) said the venue was twice as packed as it was that night with Marc. Not good.
Rhapsody had a blast playing here in June, but the turnout was less than impressive (though, to be honest, better than I expected it to be), so I have no idea how that's going to affect us later on. I'd be miserable if they didn't come back though.
Oh, and Epica seems to do pretty well for themselves somehow, as they're coming back in November. Third time in 2 years, not bad.
And of course all the other great bands just can't afford to come here (Power Quest being the one I'm mainly talking about). Simply put, the US blows for metal as a whole and touring for those bands. Hell, even if the bands do come here, they won't even go to certain places - Florida for example, because it's just out of the way and costs a lot to travel down and back for one or two cities. On top of that, the one good festival the US has going for it (PPUSA) seems to be having trouble, so that might not last for long.
Another issue is probably the economy, but it seems like power metal has always had trouble touring here, so who knows. But even though I don't know the specifics, I do know it costs a hell of a lot to bring a band overseas and tour this massive country.
It's depressing. I want to see so many of these bands, especially before they get too old or call it a day (here's looking at you, Helloween), but unless I move to Europe it's going to be really hard. What I'd give just to go to Wacken or Bloodstock once...
Ironically I bought my first PPUSA ticket BECAUSE Power Quest was on the bill. Unfortunately you guys were not able to make it, but I am now going to my 4th PPUSA in a row because it simply rocks that hard.
I try to make it to local shows when I can - especially to shows in youth-friendly (ie, not 18/21+) venues that I can bring my son to. I took him to see Sabaton last year and he still talks about it. Unfortunately, I agree with the above poster: if your name is not Blind Guardian or Nightwish, you really can't make money every tour date. I remember seeing Orphaned Land, and it was very intimate for me and 30-40 other folks... but that does not lead to a profitable tour stop - and U.S. Touring is even more expensive now with gas at $3.90+/gal.
That aside - I am still waiting for Power Quest's U.S. tour!
We were gutted we couldn't make it....I'm not sure how much of it was every explained but we couldn't get the visas we needed although it subsequently seems that maybe we had been told to apply for the wrong ones. So we lost money all round there.
I was told that we would be invited to a future event but it seems that has fallen by the wayside and maybe that ship has now unfortunately sailed.
Would have been one of the highlights of my musical career to be honest.
It's the same the world over tbh unless you are a "name" band to a certain extent. It does however emphasise the need to change the way we approach the whole business. I've never made money from PQ.....income has always been turned into capital for merchandise, recording or touring. Lack of support from labels doesn't really help and it does beg the question as to whether nowadays, when you have an established fanbase, is there any real point in being signed if you are not getting pushed or promoted?
1928
Jack Nippleson
- May 13, 2007
- 2,789
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Do you think there is any possible way to get on a big name bill like Nightwish or Blind Guardian? Or does that go back to the whole "you have to pay to get on the bill" thing, and that costs a hell of a lot of money? I mean, when Rhapsody (from Italy) came here (to the USA), they were supported by Voyager (an AUSTRALIAN band), I wonder what it must have cost them to get on the bill, nevermind fly over here...
i know some some artists who do their own merchandising from home or an office. Ripper Owens is one who does this! Tshirts, caps etc. No idea how well it works for him, but have you ever thought about something like this Steve, maybe having a family member post out the stuff etc?
That's how I've done it for years actually.....regular post office runs at lunchtimes 
There has been a noticeable decline in merch sales over the past 12 months as well. When you have the profile of a "ripper" owens then I guess you are talking about much more significant amounts of product.
I just can't afford to produce the range of product that people want to see....and then have lots of stock sat around in a spare room at home doing nothing. I think in the future we will have to re-evaluate how we go about this aspect of the business.
Similarly with CD's.....if we want copies of our last 2 albums to take on tour we have to buy them from the label at what is close to 7 euros per unit. Given that we also get no tour support from the label either then it begs the question as to what is the actual benefit of being with a label.
Comes back to the need to modernise and take back control in house.
There has been a noticeable decline in merch sales over the past 12 months as well. When you have the profile of a "ripper" owens then I guess you are talking about much more significant amounts of product.
I just can't afford to produce the range of product that people want to see....and then have lots of stock sat around in a spare room at home doing nothing. I think in the future we will have to re-evaluate how we go about this aspect of the business.
Similarly with CD's.....if we want copies of our last 2 albums to take on tour we have to buy them from the label at what is close to 7 euros per unit. Given that we also get no tour support from the label either then it begs the question as to what is the actual benefit of being with a label.
Comes back to the need to modernise and take back control in house.
Andiferum
My penis exploded
I hear you, Steve! Too many people don't realise that all the merchandise on sale to them has already been paid for and if it doesn't sell, it's a large loss. It's so expensive to even get 1 t-shirt design to work, let alone a full clothing range and people's requests for completely random items from bands who simply can't afford to produce it for its limited sales potential.
Volcane
Power Quest
it's a thorny old problem for indie bands...
Take a tour shirt for instance. By the time you've got the screens made for front and back print, decided on your split of mens/womens and the sizes, doing your own merch run is expensive. I'm a bit out of the loop these days, but each screen (colour) on a design is going to be ITRO £15-£20, so a five colour print could easily be £100 to setup, plus the back print, so maybe a one colour back print means setup costs of about £120. Then you need to buy the shirts, so maybe 10 of M/L/XL in mens and womens at say £6.50ea gives you £390.
Total cost £510 for 60 shirts. Add £10 shipping gives you £520. At £15 a pop you need to sell 35 to break even, which playing a small UK pub/club tour you *might* just do. Then there is the small matter of having someone to actually stand there all night and sell the merch.
Some of the figures are guesses, but not too far off I don't think. If you know your audience demographic then you can target size and splits better and avoid getting left with stuff no-one wants, but it's still tricky!
Take a tour shirt for instance. By the time you've got the screens made for front and back print, decided on your split of mens/womens and the sizes, doing your own merch run is expensive. I'm a bit out of the loop these days, but each screen (colour) on a design is going to be ITRO £15-£20, so a five colour print could easily be £100 to setup, plus the back print, so maybe a one colour back print means setup costs of about £120. Then you need to buy the shirts, so maybe 10 of M/L/XL in mens and womens at say £6.50ea gives you £390.
Total cost £510 for 60 shirts. Add £10 shipping gives you £520. At £15 a pop you need to sell 35 to break even, which playing a small UK pub/club tour you *might* just do. Then there is the small matter of having someone to actually stand there all night and sell the merch.
Some of the figures are guesses, but not too far off I don't think. If you know your audience demographic then you can target size and splits better and avoid getting left with stuff no-one wants, but it's still tricky!
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