US touring halted?

[mad_taffer]

I think that solution is too easy. In order to get people to see these bands (even local), they have to have some type of exposure.
Who is going to pay x amount of dollars to see band X just because they know they are playing somewhere?
Exposure is the key, but people are not going to see a band just because they are playing some venue nearby, if they have never heard their stuff.
Well maybe some, but it's not the majority that will do that.
it's a bigger issue than that.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

I think that solution is too easy. In order to get people to see these bands (even local), they have to have some type of exposure.

Well you're right about that, and I agree. The problem is, we all know that the mainstream music industry isn't going to promote bands we care about. So unless we actually do whatever we can to promote the scene ourselves, it won't build itself. I know it will take millions of fans to make that kind of change, but if every real metal fan were to go see some good American metal, you might just see them hit the mainstream.

That's just my theory, of course. And it depends on lots of people actually going to these shows. I would hope that word of mouth would be enough, but if we want to see more metal in the US, we gotta get more people to care about the scene. And what better way to do that then support our own American bands?

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

This is relevant to my interests. I love Powerwolf. Pure ridiculousness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N6X3soFFTo

ALL HAIL THE CHEESE.

Damn, straight! With ya all the way on these guys!

 

[Angrafan]

I think Power Metal is in a downturn in general, not just in the states.

Here in Brazil all the big Power Metal bands used to play in some pretty big ass venues in São Paulo (the main market) and some mid-sized venues in other markets. I mean big! Edguy, Shaman and Helloween were drawing 6000-8000 people in the early 2000's.

That is no longer a reality. Other than Blind Guardian, Avantasia, Helloween and Nightwish, most other bands are playing in much smaller venues. And although Helloween still plays the big venues, they don't get close to selling it out like they used to.

And bands are playing less shows too! Some bands are not even bothering with shows in the smaller Brazilian markets. It's very common to a "Brazilian tour" to consist of one show in São Paulo... And South American tours to consist of 3-5 shows in the entire continent.

 

[TribunalRecords]

But if more people would put their money where their mouth is and actually support the scene that they love, you might find a different situation.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but not sure how people have factored in the economy in all this. Trying to get people to support a scene financially speaking when the finances aren't there is the biggest problem facing the touring industry right now.

Choices are being made and some show attendance is suffering, but some isn't. I hate to say it, but the industry is coming to a point where we weed out the weak so to speak. There just isn't enough money and interest to go around in the live arena for all bands.

I stopped touring in 2009 because of show attendance slipping and the economy was bad then, but it's even worse now for bands. I decided to focus my efforts on something else until people had money to spend and the competition on the summer touring market wasn't as fierce. It was brutal competing in nearly every town with anywhere between 1-3 shows. It got to a point of being ridiculous. Now some of the bigger markets can EASILY hand that, but smaller markets cannot.

There is a club here in town that has been around for nearly 30 years but is on verge of closing down because nobody is coming to shows. It sucks, but this is where we find ourselves in 2012.

 

[Jasonic]

Edguy, Shaman and Helloween were drawing 6000-8000 people in the early 2000's.

Yep,
They came. They tried. They never drew anywhere near what they could in other parts of the world.

Heck, not even anyone in the big 4 (aside from METALLICA) on their own could draw 6000 to 8000 (and don't say they can, unless they are touring together).

I think Nina has some valid points that are very erroneously being ignored.

 

[TheLongshot]

Well, I would have been at the last Sabaton show if it weren't sick. And I would support WHW if they'd actually play a local show. Problem I've been having lately is with the fall of Jaxx, many of the shows that would have come to DC are going to Baltimore instead. I know Glenn is playing the smallest violin for this, but it is a big deal if I go to a show or not.

I will be supporting Korpiklaani when they come to Empire, but thats the first show I'll be going to since the switch.

 

[Element_man]

Oh yeah, here's something else you folks might find relevant or interesting. A brief exchange with Terese, promoter of Noctis Fest, Calgary.

Nope, the prices have gone up, that's why I did so much hand wringing over Venom and some of the other bands .....asking prices have shot waaaaaay up in a year. I just laughed at some if the quotes I was getting and had to go on to the next band .

The reason for this I am told by the agents, is that no one is making money off album sales anymore, so festival asking prices have risen. If you only knew the prices I was quoted for a few other bands....one told me not to send in an offer that wasn't less than 6 figures, and other band you guys frequently ask for was 75K . If I retire this year, that will be the reason.

I had to charge enough to cover the expenses. As most of you know, I've been able to keep prices pretty low in the past cause I don't need to make a profit. My real job provides me with a nice living. So these ticket prices are truly a reflection of the expenses of staging the show.

It was a good question, I'm glad you asked it.

I dont know about Morbid Angel cause I didnt ask them this year. We're talking the King Diamond, Manowar, Yngwie Malmsteen category performers that are used to playing the really big festivals in Europe.

http://www.albertametal.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22763&start=60

http://www.noctisvalkyries.com/

Obviously, we're not talking strictly power metal and booking for festivals is different than booking a full on tour but the principal is there. I'm sure Glen has had this happen when looking at A-list headliners. Something to chew on...

 

[MYSTIC1]

The fact is- Americans like whatever is popular, on the radio- be it satellite or terrestrial. That hasn't changed since the existence of radio and it's not going to. We are a culture of followers and it makes me sick. I will always support the bands I love, whether it's by going to see them (if possible) or buying their music or a t shirt. I'm not trying to change anyone's perception of a scene/subgenre. That's a lost cause....

 

[nomisofsiman]

The fact is- Americans like whatever is popular, on the radio- be it satellite or terrestrial. That hasn't changed since the existence of radio and it's not going to. We are a culture of followers and it makes me sick. I will always support the bands I love, whether it's by going to see them (if possible) or buying their music or a t shirt. I'm not trying to change anyone's perception of a scene/subgenre. That's a lost cause....

This unfortunately is very true. A number of my friends are the types that if you ask them what music they listen to, they say "Whatever's popular." Drives me nuts as I as all of us on this forum I imagine only listen to music we actually like.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but not sure how people have factored in the economy in all this. Trying to get people to support a scene financially speaking when the finances aren't there is the biggest problem facing the touring industry right now.

This is also quite true, and sad. I wouldn't give anyone shit for not having the money to go to a show. I've given tickets away to people just because I want to see them there. When people actually pay me for tickets, it's kinda magical, because I know more than a dozen friends and fans who don't have jobs right now. For a while, I was one of them! But I do whatever I can for the scene. My beef is just with people who don't want to take the time to see people, even when it's convenient. That saddens the hell outta me.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Finberg isn't booking his latest tours based on how many people came out to see Mangled in a pizza joint.

Not on purpose, but when the entire metal scene unequivocally hates you and more than half your clients jump ship to Rock The Nation, you have no choice sometimes.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

Not on purpose, but when the entire metal scene unequivocally hates you, you have no choice sometimes.

No wonder he has no photos of himself on his Facebook page... XD

 

[Claus / Intromental]

Powerwolf is currently building empire in Europe with no real interest in the States yet.

New slogan: "Powerwolf - the only band whose singer sucks more than the Sabaton vocalist."

 

[Harvester]

New slogan: "Powerwolf - the only band whose singer sucks more than the Sabaton vocalist."

You are worthless...except for the website...and the cd sampler...and the program. Otherwise, you are worthless.

 

[Cheiron]

New slogan: "Powerwolf - the only band whose singer sucks more than the Sabaton vocalist."

Still better than Lars

(Who I like a lot)

 

[Hammerlock]

You know, it's always amazed me how Primal Fear really doesn't get much love in the States outside of when they're at Progpower. With them having a heavier sound than most power metal, I would have assumed they'd be more popular through the years in comparison to bands like Sonata Arctica and Edguy. As for those latter bands I just mentioned, I think it also has to do with content. A lot of people are getting sick of SA and Edguy due to change in styles, though the last time Sonata was here it seemed they got a pretty decent crowd out of the HOB in Chicago.

Well, keep in mind, the ProgPower reception a band receives isn't a good barometer of what they'd get on an ordinary tour. PPUSA is attended by the serious, die-hard fans. We're all crazy enough about power and prog to travel to another city to see it, so even if you and I would go crazy to see a band like Mystic Prophecy put on a show, most other places they would go to tour over here, nobody will have heard of them.

I've noticed the same thing. The Sabaton show this spring was phenomenal, but there were maybe 250 people actually in attendance, and from what I understand that was a fairly large turnout. I was hoping for bands like Hammerfall and Primal Fear to tour behind their new albums this year, but those obviously haven't materialized. I was really hoping that power metal was enjoying something of a surge in the states, but it looks like it was more of a flash in the pan than an actual trend. Thankfully, I will (for the foreseeable future at least) still have ProgPower to look forward to, and dream that someday all of those bands on my bucket list will make an appearance.

 

[J. Golden]

You know, it's always amazed me how Primal Fear really doesn't get much love in the States outside of when they're at Progpower.

That is an easy one; because metal bands like that do not do well in the states, people just don't go out to see them. The support for traditional, power, and prog metal is just not here. When bands like Primal Fear scoot out into clubs they are playing on the same field that any other band in the country is playing on.
And the popularity of a band cannot be gagged by a festival, think this has been mentioned by several people in this forum.
It is ad but ture, the U.S. is no place for metal, well certain types. One of the most common things I heard from people at H.O.A. the other week is how sad they think it is that America has such great bands but no one here seems to care.... Wait, I'm straying into another topic.

 

[Hammerlock]

Powerwolf is currently building empire in Europe with no real interest in the States yet.

Trust me on that.

Sadly, thanks to the problems that even the big, established names have been having pulling in audiences over here, a lot of bands seem to be making that decision now... why pay lots of money up front to go play tiny venues in the states when you can sell out four dates in Germany alone over on your home turf? Even to me, who would love to see more power metal bands push to succeed over here, that sounds like it would be a tough sell to a band like Powerwolf.

 

[RagePSV]

No, I know what he was saying.

My point was more to showcase that interest in PM must be declining overall, even in this circle, if such a statement could be made without much disagreement, ya know????

I am not sure if declining interest is not the result of declining quality. My personal opinion is that genre has just stagnated for whatever reason, not sure why. For me the '90s was easily the power metal hayday and hasn't or just can't be matched. All the '90s Blind Gurdian is pheonominal, Land of the Free and Somewhere Out in Space for Gamma Ray can't be touched. Glory to the Brave(the album that got me into power metal) and Legacy of Kings for Hammerfall. Master Of The Rings, Time of The Oath and Better Than Raw for Helloween. Hell, even '90s Running Wild is amazing (Black Hand Inn). And don't even get me started on Rage, I love all their stuff, but I know better than to compare their new stuff to their old stuff, it's not as good. The only recent release that has really opened my eyes is the The Art Of War.

I've been listening to stuff from Mystic Prophecy lately and for whatever reason, nothing stands out. Don't get me wrong it is good music, but I can't think of a song that reaches out and forces me to sing along with it like Beyond The Black Hole or Vahalla always do.

I just get the feeling that all that can be done in this genre seems to have already been done. I really hope something comes along that proves me wrong on this.