Using Reverb/Compression on Heavy Rhythm in the Studio?

[silverwulf]

OK guys, my band is going to be cutting our demo sometime soon. We're going to just do our demo in a local home studio that's pretty well stocked, and I've been talking with the owner who will be recording us. He's basically going to record us for free, so we don't have much room to complain. However, I was talking to him today regarding getting a "huge" guitar sound.

What we're going to be using is a Mesa Dual Rectifier ('94 2 Channel Model) into a Mesa Recto 4X12 Cab (Traditional Sized, Straight Model). We may also use a Mesa Studio Preamp (kind of like the preamp section of a Mesa Mark amp) into the Recto for some additional heavy sounds. We'll be using EMG 81 equipped guitars.

The sound that we're looking for from the guitar is something similar to the sound on Metallica "Black Album" (think "Sad but True") or Creed's "Human Clay" album (we enjoy the thick sounding guitars on there). Basically a really thick sound, with a tight low end, chunky and defined.

In talking with this guy, he said he had some ideas on how to achieve it. He wants to use 2 SM-57's to record in stereo, and he wants to double the tracks. But, he also wants to use reverb and compression on the heavy guitar sounds. Is this something that is common? It seems to me that using reverb on heavy rhythm's would make them sound "off" or muddy, and compression on that signal seems like it would make it lose dynamics?

So, is using compression/reverb something that you guys do, or is this guy just crazy? Also would you recommend recording in stereo or using a single SM-57 for those kind of sounds, and about how many rhythm tracks do you think we should use on average?

Andy or others? Thanks for all you help!

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

I don't know about the reverb and the compression, but recording with two SM57 is good if you are carefull with the phase. Basically, what you could do is put a 57 in front of a speaker where it sounds right, then blend in the other one that will be adding an extra medium to the overall sound. This is not really a stereo recording since the two mics are pointing at the same speaker, and you'd pan the two mics at the same place in the stereo field (if you want a good separation of your guitar parts), but I did it on my band's album and it was much better than with one mic only, but then again, pay a lot of attention to the phase.

 

[marcust]

hello,
andy only uses this c4 waves plugin explained in this thread http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141635
and i know (from previous posts) he double tracks (2 panned hard left/ 2 panned hard right)


good luck with the recordings,

mark

 

[Lopes]

I'd be really cautious of using reverb on the heavy guitars as a main rhythm sound because it tends to clutter up the sound, especially when it starts getting into the faster tempos. If you want a really thick sound, I would say that the best way to do it is to triple, or even quadruple the the guitars, but when doing that the playing needs to be tight as virgin 'tang.

 

[Hammer Bart]

I'm no professional, but I wonder how he plans on getting palm muted guitars tight with reverb on. The I like guitars 'upfront' and 'in your face' (for lack of better description ) and from my experience reverb does the opposite of that. When I use reverb, it seems to make things blend in and sound more distant regardless of volume. I could be doing it all wrong though.

As for the compression, I imagine it can be useful on certain frequencies (if it's too muddy or boomy for example). In general, distorted guitars are pretty compressed, since that's part of what distortion does do the signal, right? I mean just look at the waveform of a clean and a distorted guitar.

But don't let this stop you from experimenting, just try what the guy wants to try. Perhaps he's onto something. He has a home recording studio, I don't.

If it works out well, post an MP3 of the result

Edit: Record the guitars without comp and verb and add that in the mix, that way you don't have to re-record guitars if the whole verb and comp thing doesn't work out.

 

[James Murphy]

avoid the reverb on your main heavy rhythm guitars. you can let him try adding some later in the mixdown stage just to hear his idea so he doesn't get butt-hurt, but but be sure to tell him "no, i don't like it".

 

[black sugar]

Like James said, make him cut the guitars (and probably just about everything else) dry. Your demo is gonna be more "Rock You Like a Hurricane" than "Sad But True" if he uses reverb and the wrong compression to make it sound "big." Brett also had a really good point about phase.

Is the guy familiar, or better yet, comfortable with (modern) heavy music? If not, you're gonna be fighting stuff like this the whole way. It sounds like you have the right gear, so he shouldn't need to get too crazy to make it sound good.

If you want the "Sad But True" sound, you might be able to get some ideas from "A Year And A Half in the Life of Metallica" (or whatever it's called) Pt.1 where they're in the studio. They build some amp fortresses with foam padding and moving blankets to record the guitars. If I remember right, the video shows them using what sounds like a slightly dirty baritone guitar (like through a Fender Twin or something) as part of the layered guitar tone on that song.

Just goes to show how being creative to capture good primary source material like that is much more important and effective than smoke and mirrors tricks later in the chain. And I suppose the other moral of the story is that it doesn't hurt to have Metallica's budget either.

 

[egan.]

So, is using compression/reverb something that you guys do, or is this guy just crazy? Also would you recommend recording in stereo or using a single SM-57 for those kind of sounds, and about how many rhythm tracks do you think we should use on average?

Andy or others? Thanks for all you help!

There aren't a whole lot of dynamics in distorted guits to begin with...the more gain the less dynamics. Honestly tho what you're describing sounds more like what I've read dudes used to do during the grunge era....granted that's based on second hand knowledge.

 

[Andy Sneap]

no, he's crazy, i suggest tipping coffee down the back of his rack to make sure his reverbs and compressors are OFF.

 

[Matt Smith]

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

no, he's crazy, i suggest tipping coffee down the back of his rack to make sure his reverbs and compressors are OFF.

Does one need to do a Darth Vader impression at the same time?

On topic: Fuck no. No reverb. NONE.

 

[Lopes]

Does one need to do a Darth Vader impression at the same time?

BURN!

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

I was hoping someone else remembered that.