vanilla sky

rahvin

keeper of the flame
Oct 10, 2001
17,571
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safe but not far from the city
i saw that movie the first time about a year ago. wasn't that impressed. i can act better than penelope cruz and the ending just plain sucks.

stumbled into it again in a club about one month ago and remembered the story. felt a bit disturbed about it (and apparently lost control of the good habit of putting a subject at the beginning of each phrase), so i decided to see it at home again. i have to say i still think the movie is not above average, but i'm almost scared by it. the whole dissolution of the self and the loss of memory is a very unsettling topic for me.

anybody has seen it and has thoughts about it?
 
i saw it, but i got bored and so i rewatched it some time after, i never really managed to follow it well. to tell clearly what i think i should watch it again since i remember it so-so now.
for what i know i agree with the fact that the loss of memory and complete confusion about what happened was really disquieting, at the moment i thought about how would i feel if that happened to me, there's something about not having the control and the memory of what i do that scares me. with this i mean not having control at all, feel completely lost.

then to say something more, as i said, i should watch it again :erk:
edit: i will, i still have the vhs from my friend.
 
Hiljainen said:
i saw it, but i got bored and so i rewatched it some time after, i never really managed to follow it well. to tell clearly what i think i should watch it again since i remember it so-so now.

the plot is blurry and the ending falls like a deus ex machina with the grace of a pregnant hippo on a story everybody at that point is hoping will have a logical explanation.

i can outline the basic idea if you want - tomorrow, most likely - but the point in watching it again is getting the little details and innuendos once you have a grasp of what's going on in the background. not even them are logically structured or connected, but they do have a strong emotional impact once you get to actually see what their intended place is. i'm totally haunted by the "four times" thing, for instance. the insistence from david in asking julie about why four times is important, his later remembering and using the detail in the distortion sleep (hah! gotcha! soilwork! :p) as a means to frustrate desire again - pleasure delayer, he said he was one - and stuff. it's creepy. what i hate the most is becoming something else, then nothing, then starting from scratch. also: picking people you've seen once as landmarks for your life and so on.
 
rahvin said:
the plot is blurry and the ending falls like a deus ex machina with the grace of a pregnant hippo on a story everybody at that point is hoping will have a logical explanation.

i can outline the basic idea if you want - tomorrow, most likely - but the point in watching it again is getting the little details and innuendos once you have a grasp of what's going on in the background. not even them are logically structured or connected, but they do have a strong emotional impact once you get to actually see what their intended place is. i'm totally haunted by the "four times" thing, for instance. the insistence from david in asking julie about why four times is important, his later remembering and using the detail in the distortion sleep (hah! gotcha! soilwork! :p) as a means to frustrate desire again - pleasure delayer, he said he was one - and stuff. it's creepy. what i hate the most is becoming something else, then nothing, then starting from scratch. also: picking people you've seen once as landmarks for your life and so on.

yeah, scary. my head is already starting to spin ;) i'll watch it again anyway, also because the most interesting thing i could do in these days would be a rain dance.
and yes, i'd like if you write something about it (tomorrow), if you want :)
 
Never heard of this movie before....the matter seems quite intriguing though...I'm not so sure if i'd like to watch it,sometimes these stuff are rather scary,especially when you think that maybe someday sth like that can happen to you...brrrr........at the same time there is something interesting in these processes,or at least the perverted me sees interesting stuff in such situations....hmmmm

Rahvin,indeed,it would be nice to write something more on it,so that we can see if it's interesting enough to check out!

/troll (who thinks omitting the subject in the beginning of the phrase is rather cool....sometimes it feels so uncomfortable with all these "i","i","i".....)
 
@rahvin or Hiljainen: Have either of you ever seen Momento? The idea of having no memory made me immediately think of this movie. I've never seen Vanilla Sky before, but Momento was kind of unsettling to watch for what seems like you are saying made Vanilla Sky unsettling to watch. The guy on Momento constantly had to put yellow sticky notes up while trying to solve a murder because he never remembered the clues. It had an ending that made it kind of disturbing. :erk:
 
"Vanilla Sky" is actually a remake of a spanish movie directed by Alejandro Amenabar (widely known by his movie "The Others"), and originally called "Abre los Ojos" (Open your eyes). Exactly the same plot, but with Tom Cruise starring as the main character instead of the original actor Eduardo Noriega. Penelope Cruz appears in both movies and... well, she sucks big time.


|ngenius.
 
I saw it, but I think I was a bit distracted by the fact
that I had just seen "Eyes Wide Shut" by Cruise, so I
didn't think that much of it, I may have to give it
another shot some day.

EWS is a must see tho, there is a scene where the
music really makes your skin crawl, especially if you
have a good sound system, with a subwoofer.
 
I bought the movie before even seeing it, so I'm kinda stuck with it. Some of its concepts does make a person think, but I don't know. I'd like to see the original film and compare it.
 
I saw it but got annoyed and turned it off... penelope cruz was really getting on my nerves, and I told myself Id watch the spanish original later, instead of the hollywood remake... but i still havent
 
i'm glad we all agree that movie would have benefited from penelope cruz being a long long way away from it. :)

@tebus: i've seen and liked memento, it's actually one of the most clever movies i remember (heh) watching in the past 3-4 years. however, despite it being some ten times better than vanilla sky it didn't make me feel so troubled. the explanation at the end is... sad (in a good sense). and quite amazing.

@|ngenius: i totally love "the others" and i didn't make the connection although i knew about the other movie. thanks for pointing that out! now i think i can see things a little more clearly.

ok, what follows is an explanation of vanilla sky. i can't talk about this movie in any other way than by clarifying what's going on, while when you look at it the first time you actually have no idea about most of it. so the following is full of spoilers and you might want to watch vanilla sky once without knowing anything about it instead of reading this.

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david (tom cruise) is a young rich guy who inherited his father's publishing company at a young age. his parents died in an accident. he spends his days just being stupid, hanging around with a writer friend and having sex with - we can infer - a whole lot of pretty ladies including cameron diaz (julie). from the beginning we gather that as though he only sees her as a friend and a "fuck buddy", she's secretly harbouring feelings for him. at his birthday party, david meets a spanish girl (sofia / penelope cruz) and immediately falls in love with her. she had been brought to the party by david's friend (the writer, whose name i can't remember for the life of me), who's also kinda taken but steps back as david - being the successful one - always gets all the girls. julie also shows up at the party though she wasn't invited: sad and frustrated, she spies on david and sofia having a good time.

david ends up going to sofia's place, where they spend the night together, basically talking about each other. no making out. in the morning, as david leaves sofia's apartment full of new energy and a sense of purpose in his life, julie arrives in her car and admits she had been following david. while at first this freaks him out, david later agrees to get into the car with julie (possibly to go and have sex?) and they leave together. during the ride they start having a discussion, where julie seems to be obsessed by wanting to be something more for david than just the occasional fuck. she also reveals david's friend told her about the "fuck buddy" thing, and is extremely upset about it. through david's first unconcerned, then worried denial, julie loses her marbles and control of the car. they fall off a bridge.

aside from the interludes where david is in the psychiatric ward talking with a criminal psychiatrist (mccabe), the only scenes in this part of the movie that do not belong to the reality of david's life are at the very beginning (a nightmare he's having while in bed with julie) and when he talks with sofia after the car-crash, in the woods. the latter could also be a nightmare, or part of his coma experience.
when david wakes from the coma (julie apparently didn't make it) he's badly disfigured, both his face and right arm are disgusting to look at. he revels in his misery for some time and doesn't want to see anybody. he grabs hold of the future of his publishing company as a reaction of having been threatened by the board of counsellors (who all want his share of the company) to be declared of unsound mind. apparently, there is no solution through surgery for his condition, and the only thing science can offer is some very dull-looking plastic mask.

then one day, driven by loneliness and the desire to recapture that last feeling of his life being on focus, david decides to go and see sofia. she seems quite happy he decided to show up again, and not that put off by his now freakish looks. they decide to go out together and they meet at night in a crowded club. david's friend is also there. him and sofia watch david approach them wearing the mask and seem kinda miffed by it. now, the whole scene at the club has a lot of unexplained psychology going on, so i'll just stick to the facts for now. sorry if they seem to make little sense.

david's friend tells him not to wear the mask and start acting like the old david did. then he adds that he's there because sofia wanted him to be and she's also thinking it's weird that david's relying so much on her seeing they only met once. david is crushed by this news and goes to the bar, ordering drink after drink. he watches, maskless, from the counter while sofia and his friend sort of dance the night away, without daring to approach them again. only when it's very late and sofia's already talking with an altogether different dude she probably met there at the club, he makes his move and tells her he wants to start from scratch. he makes her repeat a funny piece of dialogue they had back at his birthday party, where basically he had told sofia that julie was stalking him. while at first sofia likes remembering the episode, she then falls silent and doesn't want to tell why. the three of them leave and on the walk back to their cars/bikes david gets all bitter and starts biting at both sofia and his friend. at some point they both leave him shaking their heads. he hangs around for a while, then decides to run after them and sees them both just around the corner, kissing. he falls to the floor, unconscious.

that's where reality in the movie stops. david's real life after this point (which we only get to see much later on) becomes a living hell: he manages to wrestle the board for control of his company, but he loses the will to live and spends all his nights and days at home sulking. at some point he finds an interesting offer on the internet: a brand new company called "life extension" allows people to survive their own death through suspended animation, while they are subconsciously stimulated to dreaming a lifelike dream for as many years as they want. the dream can have any content the customer chooses and is constantly monitored by technical support. david signs a contract with "life extension", choosing as the moment in his life where the dream will begin to take over when he's dead, the morning after that very night at the club. then he od's himself to sleep and he dies. his body is put in suspended animation and the lucid dreaming (as he can control his actions) begins.

and that's what we see for the rest of the movie, without the knowledge of what exactly we are looking at.
when david wakes up lying in the street where he fell the night before, he finds sofia at his side. she takes him home, denies anything happened with david's friend, and they basically fall in love with each other all over again and start living together. soon the doctors tell david that a cure to reconstruct his face has been found. he's rather skeptical, but the operation goes well and his face is back to normal. things really seem to be perfect.

until one night david wakes up, goes to the bathroom and finds he's disfigured again. he screams, sofia screams, then he wakes up in his bed as if it was all a dream. a check in the bathroom reveals his face is normal again. but when he gets back to bed, there's no sofia lying there: there's julie. she keeps repeating she's sofia, but david won't believe her (how could he!) and ties her up to the bed, then calls for the police. however, it's him who gets arrested for beating the girl everybody now seems to think it's sofia. getting back home thanks to the help of the company managers, he finds all the pictures showing sofia now have julie in them instead, and it's still julie that welcomes him home, apparently willing to forgive him for beating her. later the same day david sees sofia instead of julie again, and somehow thinks it was just a momentary lapse of reason on his part. they start making love at night, and right at the point of climax sofia becomes julie again. he then grabs a pillow and suffocates her. after the pillow is removed, he sees sofia again.

david tries to hide from the law for a while and winds up in a bar. he's approached by a guy who tries to tell him to regain control of his life and understand that everything about him is following his command. he's part of the tech support for david's lucid dreaming, but of course david cannot be aware of that as he has no recollections of his own death. the guy is trying to instruct david on how to maneuvre the dream back into the direction he originally wanted it to go, since all the interpolations featuring julie that we have seen, merely come from david's subconscious and his feelings of guilt, or the trauma following the accident. he ignores advice and ends up being captured by the police and confined in a psychiatric ward, with his mask on (again, he sees himself as a freak and disfigured person), to talk to a psychiatrist as part of a trial for the murder of sofia. we see snippets from their dialogue throughout all the movie, even when david's talking about the pre-lucid dreaming events (which we should assume are real). however, the whole psychiatrist scenario is also part of david's lucid dreaming.

david eventually puts the pieces back together and remembers about the contract he's signed with life extension. a brief visit to their building - also in the dream - clarifies the situation for the audience too, much like i did up till now. tech support shows up again and informs david that he can now either get back to the lucid dreaming and let them fix a glitch that won't allow his subconscious to speak up ever again, or choose to end it and get back from suspended animation to his life. even though 150 years have passed since he started lucid dreaming, and his face is still disfigured (as the surgery only took place in the dream), david chooses to get back to the real life, and the movie ends with him opening his eyes.

ok, i hope this clarifies the plot. there's a lot of stuff i left out (who the fuck is ellie, for instance?) but you have to see the movie (not just once) for yourselves if you want to discuss it.
 
@Tebus: i've never seen Memento, but i already heard about it, now, reading what you and rahvin wrote, i'm curious to watch it. :)

@D_J: :lol: i had exactly the same thought

@rahvin: thank you for writing all this, :) it clarified things a lot, especially since i didn't remember all what i understood (that wasn't much anyway) of it when i watched it. after i re-watch it one of these days i'll write my impressions now that i know more.
 
@Violet Baudelaire: I guess you'll find the spanish original even more disturbing. Penelope also plays the very same character (Sofía), you'll find the annoying gachupa accent on it, and furthermore... spanish movies use to be too realistic in the way of speaking, like people you can find speaking jargon in the street. But, imo, Vanilla Sky was one of the worse performances Cruise ever made.

@Tebus: Memento was a very good idea absolutely wrong and pitifully plotted. Completely far from Vanilla Sky, though.

@Rahvin: In fact, "Vanilla Sky" and "The Others" are tightly linked. Tom Cruise, still married with Nicole Kidman, contacted Amenabar because they knew about "Abre Los Ojos" and the plot caught Cruise's interest, who immediately thought of an american remake. Amenabar played his cards pretty well, and he demanded certain economical support, and Nicole Kidman starring his next movie, in exchange for the screenplay rights. (that was going to be "The Others") ;)


|ngenius.
 
|ngenius said:
@Violet Baudelaire: I guess you'll find the spanish original even more disturbing. Penelope also plays the very same character (Sofía), you'll find the annoying gachupa accent on it, and furthermore... spanish movies use to be too realistic in the way of speaking, like people you can find speaking jargon in the street. But, imo, Vanilla Sky was one of the worse performances Cruise ever made.
Well I didnt mind the fact that the movie was disturbing, but I always prefer to see the originals than hollywood remakes... since I havent seen P.Cruz on other movies, I dont know if I dislike *her* or just the character she played, but what most annoyed me was her voice. I'd rather listen to her with the gachupa accent (whatever that is) than with the spanish-english accent though.
and I agree, Cruise wasnt good in it, at first i thought "... well, he's goodlooking so ok" but then he had to get horribly deformed, thus ruining the only attraction left :p
kidding...
Ive only seen 2 movies from spain so far: Habla con Ella and El Espinazo del Diablo, and I really liked them, so im thinking Abre los Ojos will be good.
 
Violet Baudelaire said:
I'd rather listen to her with the gachupa accent (whatever that is) than with the spanish-english accent though.

Ask Thanatos for further details. :rolleyes:

Violet Baudelaire said:
Ive only seen 2 movies from spain so far: Habla con Ella and El Espinazo del Diablo, and I really liked them, so im thinking Abre los Ojos will be good.

El Espinazo del Diablo wasn't bad at all, but I hate the great average of the Almodovar stuff, and Hable con Ella wasn't an exception. I suggest you "El Dia de la Bestia" or "The Others".


|ng.
 
Abre los Ojos and Tesis are the two Spanish movies that I always wanted to check out and I never came to do it!
And I've heard many people (all spaniards thogh) how the real version of Vanilla Sky kicks the american adaption's ass.
Also Eduardo Noriega is IMHO a better actor than Cruise who has only a great presence on the screen but less more...

fv
 
Regarding those movies, FatherVic, you know I've got them all... er... ehmm... for free (if you don't count the recordable CD cost). You can ask for them whenever you want.

On the other hand, I disagree on the Noriega vs. Cruise point. I love many of the movies where Tom Cruise performed, and even when "Vanilla Sky" is not one of the best movies he's made, his capabilities as an actor are way better than Noriega in his most ambitious dreams. Another bad point about spanish movies are those legions of young actors who don't seem to feel what they are doing, they are so passionless. They struggle to do their best, but the results are not my cup of tea, generally speaking.

I'm sorry, this stuff about spanish movies is totally off topic. Rahvin started this thread because the movie impressed him the second time he watched it, because of that life after death concept. If he wanna aim us to the main subject once again, I would be glad to talk about it. :)



|ngenius (Paco Martinez Soria lives!!! (somewhere))
 
|ngenius said:
I'm sorry, this stuff about spanish movies is totally off topic. Rahvin started this thread because the movie impressed him the second time he watched it, because of that life after death concept. If he wanna aim us to the main subject once again, I would be glad to talk about it. :)

of course. this thread is my own, you understand! my own! *shakes walking stick with a knob on the end* :p
no, really: you can discuss what you like and spare yourself more sessions in front of vanilla sky. i said that in case someone knew the movie enough to comment on some details or wanted to check it out to that purpose i'd have been glad to discuss it. the message wasn't exactly: i want a report on that film on my desk by thursday morning. ;)

but just to find one starting point for a possible debate: who's ellie? why does mccabe tells david that he's saying that name?
we're in the lucid dreaming here, so technically there is nothing and noone when david is "asleep" in his lucid dreaming, therefore we might as well assume that david did not really pronounce that name and mccabe, as a non-existing projection of david, is simply voicing the disfigured guy's subconscious. and what has david's subconscious to do with this ellie person? is she someone at life extension? is it the real name of either sofia or julie? any idea?