AngraRULES
Member
SavaRon said:
I have to say that I agree 100% with you in this one, brother. Sometimes people forget that it's not all about Bush.
Very sad......
- Thread starter Barking Pumpkin
- Start date
I have to say that I agree 100% with you in this one, brother. Sometimes people forget that it's not all about Bush.
- Aug 31, 2004
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Yngvai X said:"I am not a number...I am a free man!"
Sorry, that just popped into my head when I read that
I knew that reminded me of something....
AngraRULES said:
That tactic is being used by both sides. Tactic George Bush used to get support for Iraq.....Hussein this, Hussein that, Bin Laden this, Bin Laden that........same tactic the liberals are using against Bush.......Bush this, Bush that, etc. I really have to wonder about a large percentage of the country with some of the news I see.
- Aug 31, 2004
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chibitotoro said:
You at least have to admit what a huge walking contradiction it is with this idea that the US is allowed to do this type of identification for foreigners, but when Brazil wants to do it the US bullies them.
lady_space
Porno kitty
The thing about the whole Brazil fiasco.
The US implemented the policy first about fingerprinting after 9/11 *I think 2003*, which did not affect those in 27 nations (most European)
Brazil then has a judge that passes a ruling that sets up Brazil's policy of fingerprinting foreigners. The US was making a move based on security, Brazil was doing it in political response - that's the difference.
Brazil's judge - in the court order - stated (in regards to the US announcing the new policy) "I consider the act absolutely brutal, threatening human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis"
After the judge passed it, later it become policy.
So maybe THIS is why the US government had some problems with Brazil. Brazil's whole "reciprocity" policy is in retaliation to the US policy. I don't have a problem being fingerprinted. If I don't want to be fingerprinted, I won't go. But it was a very childish move by Brazil's government after the US announced it. The same thing happened over Visa's. I know any country has a right to do what they want, but turning politics into a "If you do, I'm going to do it!", and the only thing that can be hurt is your own country *Tourism*
And the judge who announced the court order compares the act as worthy of the worst horrors of the Nazi's? And the US government wouldn't get pissed off at that comment?
Get real people. Look at the facts.
And how is Daniel's comment post of the year? We got owned? Um, no. He states all these laws being passed without going through Congress. Links - let me see all these laws he is talking about.
Second - he just flat out does not understand the cultural differences in regards to fingerprints. It is not a big deal in the US. And he looks like a moron in the way he states we're pretty much doing the slippery slope phenomenon. Where it's for sure going to lead to this - etc. Retina scan's? If it can help in the slightest in keeping us safe, I'm all for it. Using fingerprints to use the bathroom? Sometimes I think he thinks too much.
And this whole US threatening embargo on Brazil? Where's the source, as I have not heard this before. Let's see if fingerprinting is the actual reason *if this is true and not propaganda*, or if its other reasons. (Cuba relations, terrorism, etc). Let's see the full story before we all applaud Daniel.
The US implemented the policy first about fingerprinting after 9/11 *I think 2003*, which did not affect those in 27 nations (most European)
Brazil then has a judge that passes a ruling that sets up Brazil's policy of fingerprinting foreigners. The US was making a move based on security, Brazil was doing it in political response - that's the difference.
Brazil's judge - in the court order - stated (in regards to the US announcing the new policy) "I consider the act absolutely brutal, threatening human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis"
After the judge passed it, later it become policy.
So maybe THIS is why the US government had some problems with Brazil. Brazil's whole "reciprocity" policy is in retaliation to the US policy. I don't have a problem being fingerprinted. If I don't want to be fingerprinted, I won't go. But it was a very childish move by Brazil's government after the US announced it. The same thing happened over Visa's. I know any country has a right to do what they want, but turning politics into a "If you do, I'm going to do it!", and the only thing that can be hurt is your own country *Tourism*
And the judge who announced the court order compares the act as worthy of the worst horrors of the Nazi's? And the US government wouldn't get pissed off at that comment?
Get real people. Look at the facts.
And how is Daniel's comment post of the year? We got owned? Um, no. He states all these laws being passed without going through Congress. Links - let me see all these laws he is talking about.
Second - he just flat out does not understand the cultural differences in regards to fingerprints. It is not a big deal in the US. And he looks like a moron in the way he states we're pretty much doing the slippery slope phenomenon. Where it's for sure going to lead to this - etc. Retina scan's? If it can help in the slightest in keeping us safe, I'm all for it. Using fingerprints to use the bathroom? Sometimes I think he thinks too much.
And this whole US threatening embargo on Brazil? Where's the source, as I have not heard this before. Let's see if fingerprinting is the actual reason *if this is true and not propaganda*, or if its other reasons. (Cuba relations, terrorism, etc). Let's see the full story before we all applaud Daniel.
AngraRULES
Member
I really hope you're not basing yourself in what you see on CNN or FOXNEWS or whatever other news channels. I wonder if you have access to Brazilian news channels as well.
If it was a childish move or not, what's the difference? The US has made lots of childish moves in its history, but obviously you're gonna think it was for the good of the country. My people felt they were being disrespected so they basically did the same thing to the people who made us feel that way. If you have the right to do it then maybe some other countries have it as well. It's really funny to see how Americans hated the fact that we did that to you guys... way to be a bully to someone but not accepting the same treatment... pffffff
You need to learn a lot about my country and the way things work out over there. I know a lot about yours, that's why I can talk about it. If you want, I can recommend you the tv channel GLOBO, biggest brazilian network co. among the top 5 tv networks in the whole world. Fiasco is what your government tried to do... Create an embargo just because ONE PERSON compared the actions of your government to the nazis... fucking pathetic....
If it was a childish move or not, what's the difference? The US has made lots of childish moves in its history, but obviously you're gonna think it was for the good of the country. My people felt they were being disrespected so they basically did the same thing to the people who made us feel that way. If you have the right to do it then maybe some other countries have it as well. It's really funny to see how Americans hated the fact that we did that to you guys... way to be a bully to someone but not accepting the same treatment... pffffff
You need to learn a lot about my country and the way things work out over there. I know a lot about yours, that's why I can talk about it. If you want, I can recommend you the tv channel GLOBO, biggest brazilian network co. among the top 5 tv networks in the whole world. Fiasco is what your government tried to do... Create an embargo just because ONE PERSON compared the actions of your government to the nazis... fucking pathetic....
Kenneth R.
Cináed
indeed.
remember folks, all news has a bias. of course they never, never admit to it. unless you've seen it reported from many sides, or saw it yourself, you have no frikin clue what's really going on, and are only basing what you "know" on what they selected to tell you.
remember folks, all news has a bias. of course they never, never admit to it. unless you've seen it reported from many sides, or saw it yourself, you have no frikin clue what's really going on, and are only basing what you "know" on what they selected to tell you.
No actually Angra, do some outside research yourself. That quote did come from the COURT REPORT. How the hell is that biased? The judge was Julier Sebastiao da Silva. That is a fact.
I'm so sick of people debating and the second someone does a counterargument they pull the "stop watching CNN/FoxNews" and read other sources. Pretty much every news source is biased in some way, like it or not. So read a variety of sources. I do.
That actual comment, which proceeded to launch a Brazil policy, caused a HUGE public outrage at the time. Even now, looking back as I was getting the exact quote - you can find 1000's of webpages on both sides discussing the comment.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22%22worthy+of+the+worst+horrors+committed+by+the+Nazis%22
So tell me AngraRULES, where the facts are wrong before you pull out the CNN/FoxNews card. How did I misread the situation? That is how it occured. And again - if a US judge called a Brazilian policy equal to the horror of the Nazi's, and we created a foreign policy based on thats judge decision - can you imagine the world outcry?
And before we continue talking about this embargo Daniel suggested, WHERE IS THERE PROOF OF THIS?! I have not heard it on any from any news source online or on TV, or any public forum. I have heard the whole issue of Brazil and their desire at the time for the US to stop the embargo on Cuba. But US threatening an embargo on Brazil over fingerprinting?
I have to see how this is true, and not just some comment that is false. Example, I could just write a rebuttal and state "Did you hear about Brazil threatening to train terrorists and send them to sabotage equipment on our military bases?!" Can make a great point for my case, but can be 100% wrong.
All I'm asking for is some actual proof that shows US threatened an embargo over the fingerprinting. Not the US threatening an embargo over another reason, but fingerprinting. This will validate Daniel's statement and this "Create an embargo just because ONE PERSON compared the actions of your government to the nazis... fucking pathetic...."
And hey, since terrorists can behead hostages, maybe the US can too? "If you have the right to do it then maybe some other countries have it as well." That'll go with your point! Hell no, the world would become outraged because it would be uncivilized.
The US based the policy on security for 9/11... Brazil based the policy strictly as a counter to the US insulting them.
Proud to be part of a country that creates policies in the interest of trying to upset the US (since it is well known Brazil was trying to get the US to revoke the policy) verse bettering your country?
I'm so sick of people debating and the second someone does a counterargument they pull the "stop watching CNN/FoxNews" and read other sources. Pretty much every news source is biased in some way, like it or not. So read a variety of sources. I do.
That actual comment, which proceeded to launch a Brazil policy, caused a HUGE public outrage at the time. Even now, looking back as I was getting the exact quote - you can find 1000's of webpages on both sides discussing the comment.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22%22worthy+of+the+worst+horrors+committed+by+the+Nazis%22
So tell me AngraRULES, where the facts are wrong before you pull out the CNN/FoxNews card. How did I misread the situation? That is how it occured. And again - if a US judge called a Brazilian policy equal to the horror of the Nazi's, and we created a foreign policy based on thats judge decision - can you imagine the world outcry?
And before we continue talking about this embargo Daniel suggested, WHERE IS THERE PROOF OF THIS?! I have not heard it on any from any news source online or on TV, or any public forum. I have heard the whole issue of Brazil and their desire at the time for the US to stop the embargo on Cuba. But US threatening an embargo on Brazil over fingerprinting?
I have to see how this is true, and not just some comment that is false. Example, I could just write a rebuttal and state "Did you hear about Brazil threatening to train terrorists and send them to sabotage equipment on our military bases?!" Can make a great point for my case, but can be 100% wrong.
All I'm asking for is some actual proof that shows US threatened an embargo over the fingerprinting. Not the US threatening an embargo over another reason, but fingerprinting. This will validate Daniel's statement and this "Create an embargo just because ONE PERSON compared the actions of your government to the nazis... fucking pathetic...."
And hey, since terrorists can behead hostages, maybe the US can too? "If you have the right to do it then maybe some other countries have it as well." That'll go with your point! Hell no, the world would become outraged because it would be uncivilized.
The US based the policy on security for 9/11... Brazil based the policy strictly as a counter to the US insulting them.
Proud to be part of a country that creates policies in the interest of trying to upset the US (since it is well known Brazil was trying to get the US to revoke the policy) verse bettering your country?
dragondawn
newbie
daniel's letter was amazing. let me remind you all who agree with the so-called security changes made in the last few years of something one of the founding fathers said: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." know who said that? why, good old ben franklin, that's who. think on what he said long and hard, and then take a look at what you've been willing to give up to be 'safe'.
those of you who'd submit to a body-cavity search because you've "got nothing to hide", well...sorry, but i don't agree. that's not why ben franklin and all those founding father dudes fought and died to create our country with all it's unique freedoms. i will not let the oligarchs try to dismantle my country all about me while they try to distract me with bread and circuses. i will get out and help elect decent people to office, people who share the same ideas on freedom and equality that i do. that's how you change america, because that's how the constitution was designed..see, one of those unique freedoms i mentioned above.
those of you who'd submit to a body-cavity search because you've "got nothing to hide", well...sorry, but i don't agree. that's not why ben franklin and all those founding father dudes fought and died to create our country with all it's unique freedoms. i will not let the oligarchs try to dismantle my country all about me while they try to distract me with bread and circuses. i will get out and help elect decent people to office, people who share the same ideas on freedom and equality that i do. that's how you change america, because that's how the constitution was designed..see, one of those unique freedoms i mentioned above.
Yes, but if you asked a founding father if he ever believed there was a chance that the world would have to worry about an attack that could kill thousands if not millions from one attack *speaking nuclear, biological, etc*, what would he say?
I doubt he would say Yes.
I doubt he would say Yes.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
judging by the sheer brilliance and forsight for adaptation with which the declaration and constitution were written, i think if they lived today, they'd be mighty pissed off at the government, and even moreso enraged at the people fooled into supporting it.
Nightmare1z said:
I know, Brazil had NO reason to fingerprint/photograph American citizens.. LOL It could be considered childish.. It is.. Pure political retaliation... But all of Brazil's immigration laws are reciprocal.. Why shouldn't this one?
Brazil has NO history of terrorism whatsover. There's no need for the US to fingerprint Brazlians either.. The only problem is that the US can't fingerprint middle-easterns only, as it would look terribly racist.. The easiest way out was to fingerpring all third world countries, which didn't look that good either, but was not as bad as profiling arabs only...
Nightmare1z said:
Hey, AngraFAN and angraRULES are different people.. I haven't particpated in this thread at all.. It's AngraRULES you are talking to
Kenneth R.
Cináed
AngraRULES
Member
Nightmare1z, I'll make sure I'll get you a link so it can serve to you as a proof that it actually happened.
Now.. Answering your questions... First of all... If the US or some judge or whatever the fuck the guy is compared a policy of my country to the nazis, the only thing we would do is laugh our asses off, becasue this type of comment makes no sense whatsoever. We really don't see a nazi comparison as a big deal as you guys do. I have a friend that once got suspended from High School because he stated that as much of a fuckface Hilter was, the nazi regime was strong and pretty good strategically. Talk about your "freedom", eh? We have absolutely nothing to do with the nazis... Such a comparison would be funny at its best.
Regarding you beheading comment... I am no savage to propose such a thing. If you think that goes with my point, dude, I say you should seek some professional help. I was talking about LAWS. Not about a bunch of insurgents. There's a big fucking difference.
Angrafan stated that every single immigration law in Brazil is reciprocal. That is a fact, and if you create a law that would affect our immigration, then guess what? The same thing will happen to you.
And to answer another question, yes, I am very proud to be Brazilian. We don't have to deal with this whole bulshit war you created. We don't have to deal with the whole "protecting our freedom" stuff because guess what? We are free! And if you get to the point of having to fight to protect your own freedom, you are not as free to me. We may not be a rich country, nor an important one to the world. But we care about the rest of the world more than you seem to, even though we can't offer much to help. We're not cocky, we don't think we're better than the rest of the world like most Americans do, and we have a greater sense of grattitude and happiness than Americans do. We are also not as patriotic because guess what? We care more about our PEOPLE than the name of our nation. A nation can be rebuilt, PEOPLE CAN NOT. As poor and abused as we are, Brazil is a great fucking country dude. You dont know it, so don't say a fucking word. Yes, I am very proud.
And by the way, my nickname is angraRULES, not AngraFan.
Now.. Answering your questions... First of all... If the US or some judge or whatever the fuck the guy is compared a policy of my country to the nazis, the only thing we would do is laugh our asses off, becasue this type of comment makes no sense whatsoever. We really don't see a nazi comparison as a big deal as you guys do. I have a friend that once got suspended from High School because he stated that as much of a fuckface Hilter was, the nazi regime was strong and pretty good strategically. Talk about your "freedom", eh? We have absolutely nothing to do with the nazis... Such a comparison would be funny at its best.
Regarding you beheading comment... I am no savage to propose such a thing. If you think that goes with my point, dude, I say you should seek some professional help. I was talking about LAWS. Not about a bunch of insurgents. There's a big fucking difference.
Angrafan stated that every single immigration law in Brazil is reciprocal. That is a fact, and if you create a law that would affect our immigration, then guess what? The same thing will happen to you.
And to answer another question, yes, I am very proud to be Brazilian. We don't have to deal with this whole bulshit war you created. We don't have to deal with the whole "protecting our freedom" stuff because guess what? We are free! And if you get to the point of having to fight to protect your own freedom, you are not as free to me. We may not be a rich country, nor an important one to the world. But we care about the rest of the world more than you seem to, even though we can't offer much to help. We're not cocky, we don't think we're better than the rest of the world like most Americans do, and we have a greater sense of grattitude and happiness than Americans do. We are also not as patriotic because guess what? We care more about our PEOPLE than the name of our nation. A nation can be rebuilt, PEOPLE CAN NOT. As poor and abused as we are, Brazil is a great fucking country dude. You dont know it, so don't say a fucking word. Yes, I am very proud.
And by the way, my nickname is angraRULES, not AngraFan.
Freedom in Brazil is a rather new concept, but I guess you knew that. Although according to Amnesty the situation in Brazil is such that if Gildenlow were to go there he'd be a major hypocrite.
If he so much sets foot in Russia, Brazil, Mexico, or Greece:
http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Grc-summary-eng
He should be called on it.
If he so much sets foot in Russia, Brazil, Mexico, or Greece:
http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Grc-summary-eng
He should be called on it.
AngraRULES
Member
adaher said:
I don't see your point. Freedom in Brazil is not a new concept. It's not like we've been free for not long. I think me and some other people have not understood your post.
chibitotoro
Member
dragondawn said:
Who elected Ben Franklin to the position of God without telling me? As someone already pointed out, Ben Franklin does not live in the modern world so it's a huge stretch to apply that quote to modern-day situations. I don't deserve liberty OR safety just because I think it's an acceptable measure to fingerprint incoming foreigners? Give me a break! That quote is pure dogmatic bullshit in any century.
And AngraRULES: The second you start typing lines like "we have a greater sense of grattitude and happiness than Americans do," is the second your argument loses all validity. You talk about how cocky Americans are, then make ridiculously broad generalizations about your own superiority? That, my friend, is the definition of hypocrisy, so choose your words wisely.
My bad on the name switch - its late. 
I'll be waiting for that link.
Along the lines of the beheadings though, Daniel posed the question Where does it end? Well, if one country can do what another can, where do you draw the line at what will be acceptable and what will not be? What is moral to one is not to another. The whole emphasis is to parallel how Daniel *who is quoted as brilliant in this thread* uses the same type reasoning. He's creating arguments that supports his story but are distorting facts or possibly not true *I'm waiting on your proof*
Again, find me where all these laws are too that are being passed without going into the Senate? Is he referring to judges passing laws? That's a completely different subject - and if true, shows he doesn't understand our legal system
While you pose to have this great knowledge of America and Brazil, your last paragraph majorly stereotypes Americans in general and is opinions.
"But we care about the rest of the world more than you seem to, even though we can't offer much to help." -> OPINION
"We're not cocky, we don't think we're better than the rest of the world like most Americans do, and we have a greater sense of grattitude and happiness than Americans do" -> OPINION
"We care more about our PEOPLE than the name of our nation." Implying US cares more about its name then people -> OPINION
I know many people who don't think like this. But no, you the all knowning international citizen knows better so I can't say a "fucking word". However, US gets insulted for being self-centered, then what the hell is your last paragraph? In your own way, you have things you think you're better then other countries in. Americans obviously do too, but get hate for it
And I play on a soccer team with like 3 Brazilians. They're not cocky?! PLEASE!!!
[Oh, and I fixed the correction in names!
]
I'll be waiting for that link.
Along the lines of the beheadings though, Daniel posed the question Where does it end? Well, if one country can do what another can, where do you draw the line at what will be acceptable and what will not be? What is moral to one is not to another. The whole emphasis is to parallel how Daniel *who is quoted as brilliant in this thread* uses the same type reasoning. He's creating arguments that supports his story but are distorting facts or possibly not true *I'm waiting on your proof*
Again, find me where all these laws are too that are being passed without going into the Senate? Is he referring to judges passing laws? That's a completely different subject - and if true, shows he doesn't understand our legal system
While you pose to have this great knowledge of America and Brazil, your last paragraph majorly stereotypes Americans in general and is opinions.
"But we care about the rest of the world more than you seem to, even though we can't offer much to help." -> OPINION
"We're not cocky, we don't think we're better than the rest of the world like most Americans do, and we have a greater sense of grattitude and happiness than Americans do" -> OPINION
"We care more about our PEOPLE than the name of our nation." Implying US cares more about its name then people -> OPINION
I know many people who don't think like this. But no, you the all knowning international citizen knows better so I can't say a "fucking word". However, US gets insulted for being self-centered, then what the hell is your last paragraph? In your own way, you have things you think you're better then other countries in. Americans obviously do too, but get hate for it
And I play on a soccer team with like 3 Brazilians. They're not cocky?! PLEASE!!!
[Oh, and I fixed the correction in names!
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