AngraRULES
Member
chibitotoro said:
The US makes ridiculous broad generalizations about their own superiority on a daily basis. On pretty much everything. So if my post loses validity, these comments of which I'm talking about lose validity as well.
Very sad......
- Thread starter Barking Pumpkin
- Start date
The US makes ridiculous broad generalizations about their own superiority on a daily basis. On pretty much everything. So if my post loses validity, these comments of which I'm talking about lose validity as well.
AngraRULES
Member
Nightmare1z... It's not only my opinion, but the opinion of the majority of people in Brazil. Also, it's not only my opinion that the US is cocky, self centered or whatever else I said. It's also not a solely Brazilian opinion.
Remember, the USA makes statements of how greater they are compared to other countries almost on a daily basis. Again, you're showing that you do something to other people, but when they do it back to you you get upset.
Also... Having the experience of living in different countries for a while, experiencing the cultures and the different people, I consider myself quite knowledgeable about that. You may disagree, but...
Wait wait wait... Let's not get into the subject soccer! lol
Remember, the USA makes statements of how greater they are compared to other countries almost on a daily basis. Again, you're showing that you do something to other people, but when they do it back to you you get upset.
Also... Having the experience of living in different countries for a while, experiencing the cultures and the different people, I consider myself quite knowledgeable about that. You may disagree, but...
Wait wait wait... Let's not get into the subject soccer! lol
Kenneth R.
Cináed
you said it yourself. freedoms taken for granted are freedoms whose privilege many like you are not worthy of.chibitotoro said:
and as an american myself, let me speak for all of you out there too selfabsorbed to say it: yes, we are cocky. we are so cocky, everyone in the world is sick of hearing about us and our cocks. need i spell it out?
chibitotoro
Member
Silent Song said:
Don't twist my words around, kid. There's a huge difference between taking freedoms for granted and knowingly sacrificing those freedoms in the name of what you believe.
AngraRULES: Was that not the point of your argument to begin with? We already know how you feel about Americans. I'm telling you that if you criticize us for being cocky, then act just as cocky yourself, you are nullifying your argument by being a complete hypocrite.
I've lived in Germany for self for several years before too Angra, so don't assume I'm a typical American only person.
But many of those people you are using as sources now as 'majority of the people' have never been to the US. So how come they can have opinions about the US when they don't fully understand OUR policies, while I cannot have opinions about Brazil because I've never been to Brazil?
Cockiness is also highly opinionated. Someone could say "I own two cars". One person could view this as someone just stating what that person owns, another could be like "Stupid cocky son of a bitch! So not all of us own two cars! He has to rub our faces in it daily"
Even a simple four word sentence like this can be taken as cocky to some, to others not.
If you're going to keep dishing out these statements, back them up. "Remember, the USA makes statements of how greater they are compared to other countries almost on a daily basis." Are you referring to actual cocky comments like "Britain has so many troops there, but the US has 20 times as many!!!!", or are you referring to comments like "The US has xxxx many troops deployed around the world".
Many people would find the second comment cocky
But many of those people you are using as sources now as 'majority of the people' have never been to the US. So how come they can have opinions about the US when they don't fully understand OUR policies, while I cannot have opinions about Brazil because I've never been to Brazil?
Cockiness is also highly opinionated. Someone could say "I own two cars". One person could view this as someone just stating what that person owns, another could be like "Stupid cocky son of a bitch! So not all of us own two cars! He has to rub our faces in it daily"
Even a simple four word sentence like this can be taken as cocky to some, to others not.
If you're going to keep dishing out these statements, back them up. "Remember, the USA makes statements of how greater they are compared to other countries almost on a daily basis." Are you referring to actual cocky comments like "Britain has so many troops there, but the US has 20 times as many!!!!", or are you referring to comments like "The US has xxxx many troops deployed around the world".
Many people would find the second comment cocky
Kenneth R.
Cináed
never call me "kid" again. ever. you presume to judge me when in fact, you know absolutely 0 about my age, and besides the matter: everyone has things to learn and things to teach regardless of age. don't "kid" yourself.chibitotoro said:
i'm not twisting your words around, i quoted what you posted. if you believe in sacrificing your freedom, then so be it. but i will never allow the likes of you to sacrifice my freedoms for me. you may suffer by your own choosing, but i will not submit to any injustice.
AngraRULES
Member
I really do not think you're just the typical American only person, dude. If you were, I am sure you would not be on this thread, discussing this in a logical way like we're doing (or trying to). You would have possibly just said "Fuck Gildenlow and all of you who're supporting him. God Bless America!" and not come back to the board.
You are right. Lots of people talk about the US without even knowing what the color of the flag is. On the other hand, I guarantee you that there is people out there who have lived here, been here, studied about the country and have this opinion I mentioned. While there's Americans that know about other countries, you would have to agree with me that most of them don't and still think they're better in instances such as freedom, money, power, military, etc. Even the sentence "The Greatest Country in the World" sounds cocky to lots of people.
You are right. Lots of people talk about the US without even knowing what the color of the flag is. On the other hand, I guarantee you that there is people out there who have lived here, been here, studied about the country and have this opinion I mentioned. While there's Americans that know about other countries, you would have to agree with me that most of them don't and still think they're better in instances such as freedom, money, power, military, etc. Even the sentence "The Greatest Country in the World" sounds cocky to lots of people.
I don't see your point. Freedom in Brazil is not a new concept. It's not like we've been free for not long. I think me and some other people have not understood your post
Brazil was a military dictatorship in my lifetime, and I'm only 31. I think it was 1984 or 1985 that Brazil became a democracy again, although I could be off by a few years.
To this date, there's still a lot of curtailment of civil liberties, torture, and arbitrary arrest. Brazil is not even close to Western standards of democracy and liberty yet.
I'm sure Daniel Gildenlow will be boycotting Brazil for fear of being abritrarily arrested and placed in a 5 X 5 foot cell. And Brazil and Israel are major trading partners, especially in arms. I'm sure that just burns Daniel's britches.
Brazil was a military dictatorship in my lifetime, and I'm only 31. I think it was 1984 or 1985 that Brazil became a democracy again, although I could be off by a few years.
To this date, there's still a lot of curtailment of civil liberties, torture, and arbitrary arrest. Brazil is not even close to Western standards of democracy and liberty yet.
I'm sure Daniel Gildenlow will be boycotting Brazil for fear of being abritrarily arrested and placed in a 5 X 5 foot cell. And Brazil and Israel are major trading partners, especially in arms. I'm sure that just burns Daniel's britches.
It's official. Daniel Gildenlow is a hypocrite. PoS played in Turkey May 6 and 7. According to Amnesty International:
http://web.amnesty.org/report2004/tur-summary-eng
Also, according to this article, Swedes are exempt:
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/01/05/fingerprint.program/
So this is basically your standard anti-American, anti-Israel stooge. It's not human rights, it's not about curtailment of civil liberties. It's about who he has a grudge against.
http://web.amnesty.org/report2004/tur-summary-eng
Also, according to this article, Swedes are exempt:
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/01/05/fingerprint.program/
So this is basically your standard anti-American, anti-Israel stooge. It's not human rights, it's not about curtailment of civil liberties. It's about who he has a grudge against.
chibitotoro
Member
Silent Song said:
I judge you based on the maturity level of your posts, which is relatively high, but not as high as you'd like to think. Quoting only part of what I said and then responding to that? Real mature, chief. I'll call you whatever I want, because that's my prerogative.
edit: Good job on the research, adaher. His argument just lost a whole lot of credibility.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
the fingerprint article is dated last year, they may have changed that policy since then, and it is also from a US news company.
i think YOU are the one with the grudge here.
and chibi my friend, my intent was apparently effective. tell me how sacrificing freedom for what you "believe" is any different than taking such freedoms for granted? sounds to me like you don't "believe" in freedom in that case.
since its 2am, i am off to sleep.
i think YOU are the one with the grudge here.
and chibi my friend, my intent was apparently effective. tell me how sacrificing freedom for what you "believe" is any different than taking such freedoms for granted? sounds to me like you don't "believe" in freedom in that case.
since its 2am, i am off to sleep.
AngraRULES
Member
.adaher said:I don't see your point. Freedom in Brazil is not a new concept. It's not like we've been free for not long. I think me and some other people have not understood your post
Brazil was a military dictatorship in my lifetime, and I'm only 31. I think it was 1984 or 1985 that Brazil became a democracy again, although I could be off by a few years.
To this date, there's still a lot of curtailment of civil liberties, torture, and arbitrary arrest. Brazil is not even close to Western standards of democracy and liberty yet.
I'm sure Daniel Gildenlow will be boycotting Brazil for fear of being abritrarily arrested and placed in a 5 X 5 foot cell. And Brazil and Israel are major trading partners, especially in arms. I'm sure that just burns Daniel's britches.
Brazil went through a period of military control... the Military Era... it was almost like a dictatorship, don't twist the facts. It lasted for a couple decades. I don't think you can call it "new" because we were free prior to it.
It may not be a free country to your standards. But to say that it's not even close to the "western standards of freedom" in plain bullshit. If you think about it, that kind of shit happens in many other countries as well.. I'm sure you can find out about that on the amnesty site....
chibitotoro
Member
Silent Song said:
Sure thing. When you sacrifice a freedom for what you believe (in this case, I believe it is necessary to apply more restrictions to incoming foreign nationals in order to improve national security), you give up that freedom voluntarily, and with full knowledge of the consequences. When you take a freedom for granted, you still live your life under the protection of that freedom, but you do not appreciate the fact that it is there for you, and don't think about those who sacrificed themselves to secure it for you. There's really quite a large difference between these two concepts.
Liberals never complained about giving up a heck of a lot of freedom to advance social justice. The New Deal created a super-sized government that takes half of people's earnings and heavily regulates the economy. In the name of campaign finance reform, they've supported efforts to curtail political speech, culminating in the atrocity that is McCain-Feingold.
And it's even worse in Europe.
But if we take even small measures to defend our very lives, we're on the road to a police state? I don't get it.
Gildenlow and his fellow travelers have never taken issue with even the harshest measures to advance social justice. Why the reticence to interfere with liberty when it's to prevent terrorism?
And it's even worse in Europe.
But if we take even small measures to defend our very lives, we're on the road to a police state? I don't get it.
Gildenlow and his fellow travelers have never taken issue with even the harshest measures to advance social justice. Why the reticence to interfere with liberty when it's to prevent terrorism?
In response to Angra's last post to me -
True, true - that I can agree in about the "greatest country in the world".
And I have observed ignorant Americans who spend their lives playing video games without realizing what's going on in the real world. I remember in high school one girl being asked by a teacher who the vice president was. She missed the answer. And this wasn't a poor school system, this was one of the highest ranked schools in the state. I probably should have slapped her for principle.
I think that comes with the luxaries of an American life though, that sounds cocky *damn it!* I'm in college right now, so I see it alot. Ignorant people absorbed in the material but blind to the world or even domestic situations. It's sad, but the comforts of life do blind people to what is not 'comfortable' to them. I just can't believe the number of people I know who don't read any news, watch any, or know anything going on.
So I can see what you're saying about Americans having opinions favoring the US with no real knowledge of the world. However, I watch and read the news (various sources) and am still happy I'm in the US. It might be patriotism, it might be cause I live here - but I wouldn't be anywhere else! (Unless I was retiring!) I know we have problems, but all countries do.
And I don't want the thread to get skewed here, I do respect Daniel for standing by his beliefs. That is crucial for people to do. I can't stand people who have no opinions but just follow *I'm not going to vote a certain way just cause of a title - I vote for what I believe*. I just disagree with some of his reasons!
True, true - that I can agree in about the "greatest country in the world".
And I have observed ignorant Americans who spend their lives playing video games without realizing what's going on in the real world. I remember in high school one girl being asked by a teacher who the vice president was. She missed the answer. And this wasn't a poor school system, this was one of the highest ranked schools in the state. I probably should have slapped her for principle.
I think that comes with the luxaries of an American life though, that sounds cocky *damn it!* I'm in college right now, so I see it alot. Ignorant people absorbed in the material but blind to the world or even domestic situations. It's sad, but the comforts of life do blind people to what is not 'comfortable' to them. I just can't believe the number of people I know who don't read any news, watch any, or know anything going on.
So I can see what you're saying about Americans having opinions favoring the US with no real knowledge of the world. However, I watch and read the news (various sources) and am still happy I'm in the US. It might be patriotism, it might be cause I live here - but I wouldn't be anywhere else! (Unless I was retiring!
) I know we have problems, but all countries do. And I don't want the thread to get skewed here, I do respect Daniel for standing by his beliefs. That is crucial for people to do. I can't stand people who have no opinions but just follow *I'm not going to vote a certain way just cause of a title - I vote for what I believe*. I just disagree with some of his reasons!
Pellaz
Tigron of Immanion
Angrafan said:Hey, AngraFAN and angraRULES are different people.. I haven't particpated in this thread at all.. It's AngraRULES you are talking to
Hmm.
Fingerprinting y'all might have helped avoid the confusion....
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Oh, BTW, all of y'all who have tossed the phrase "state of fear" around in this thread should be required to read State Of Fear by Michael Crichton. Like, tomorrow.
Dr_Metal
The Destroyer of Liver's
adaher said:
America bashing is the in "trend" at the moment.... And if the propaganda machine has its way it will only get worse.... Not only is America in a war against terrorism but a war of culture is being waged upon America as well....
To the poster AngraRULES: I see you typing alot of bullshit such as:
<QUOTE>
But we care about the rest of the world more than you seem to, even though we can't offer much to help. We're not cocky, we don't think we're better than the rest of the world like most Americans do, and we have a greater sense of grattitude and happiness than Americans do. We are also not as patriotic because guess what? We care more about our PEOPLE than the name of our nation. A nation can be rebuilt, PEOPLE CAN NOT. As poor and abused as we are, Brazil is a great fucking country dude. You dont know it, so don't say a fucking word. Yes, I am very proud.
</QUOTE>
So you care more about the world but you do nothing....
So most Americans think they are better than the rest of the world??? Do you have actual statistics to back that statement up??? Or are you just talking out your ass and expressing your opinion???
So you have a greater sense of gratitude & happiness then Americans??? Again.... Do you have actual scientific proof to back that statement up??? And exactly what are you Brazilians happy & grateful for??? The fact that psychotic assholes didnt fly a couple planes into 2 of your skyscrapers and kill a few thousand people??? I'm assuming brazil does have some tall buildings at least....
And you brazilians arent patriotic huh??? Care more about your people that the name of your nation do ya??? I bet that statement doesnt apply when the world cup rolls around.... Does it???
Brazil is poor and abused!?!?!? Who is abusing Brazil??? Have Colombia, Bolivia & Peru been gang banging poor Brazil again???
And I don't want the thread to get skewed here, I do respect Daniel for standing by his beliefs
Except he didn't. Unless he has a bug up his ass about fingerprinting, but doesn't mind arbitrary arrest and imprisonment.
Either he's ignorant, an anti-American stooge, or he's caught whatever bug afflicted Tolkki last year.
Except he didn't. Unless he has a bug up his ass about fingerprinting, but doesn't mind arbitrary arrest and imprisonment.
Either he's ignorant, an anti-American stooge, or he's caught whatever bug afflicted Tolkki last year.
Dr_Metal
The Destroyer of Liver's
adaher said:
I guess Danny boy doesnt mind arbitrary arrest & imprisonment.... As long as they dont take his fingerprints.... I'm sure he would have some brilliantly overwinded explanation as to why that is the case though....
I have a friend that once got suspended from High School because he stated that as much of a fuckface Hilter was, the nazi regime was strong and pretty good strategically. Talk about your "freedom", eh? We have absolutely nothing to do with the nazis... Such a comparison would be funny at its best.
Uh huh. Nothing to do with Nazi's? Do you have any idea how many Nazi war criminals retired to Brazil post WWII, living out their years there? For that matter just plain old criminals? http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=595426
Sometimes somebody leaves a freaking backpack by itself in some corner by accident, full of clothes (like it happened here in my town), and the whole fucking town stops because they thought it was a possible act of terrorism.
Uh huh. Would you care to tell that to the victims of Eric Rudolf who died or were injured in Atlanta's Cenntenial Park during the Olympic Games? It was just a backpack, you know. No big deal. Right?
There's a big difference between living in fear, and being alert.
Naturally it's a stupid over reaction when it's only cloths. And naturally it's the autorities fault for not doing their jobs if it blows your head off.
Brazil went through a period of military control... the Military Era... it was almost like a dictatorship, don't twist the facts. It lasted for a couple decades. I don't think you can call it "new" because we were free prior to it.
Uh huh. Brazil lived under a Military dictatorship for over a generation, but you don't think you can call it new freedom? People don't just "disappear" in the US for political reasons, nor are they assassinated by political enemies. Happens in Brazil to this day according to AI. For example: http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR190052002
You think the civil liberities of Brazil would hold up in a comparison to those of the US? For that matter, of all these countries slamming the USA for "human rights violations" how many have a better record? The French who lead the charge? I don't think so: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/10/world/main654703.shtml. Ask your self this: If you HAD to be a prisoner at Guantanimo Bay, or in a Brazilian prison, where would you rather be? http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR190251999
As far as finger printing goes. I'm an immigrant to the US. I've been finger printed by the Immigration and Naturalization Services (INS) twice, Department of Defense (DoD) when I joined the USMC, Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) on a firearms background check, and god knows who else.
If you cash a check someone wrote to you at their bank, and if you don't have an account there, some banks finger print you.
If you have a driver's licence the DMV has a picture of your face they can splash on CNN or FOX News if they're looking for you. So does the US government if you have a US passport.
It's ridiculous to consider finger printing an infringement of civil liberties, when the government already has everything it needs to post your wanted poster all over the world.
How many people are risking their lives by land and sea to get into Brazil, Mexico, Haiti, Russia, Iran, Viet Nam, or North Korea? Is this the best place to live or not? I know why I'm here, why are you?
Uh huh. Nothing to do with Nazi's? Do you have any idea how many Nazi war criminals retired to Brazil post WWII, living out their years there? For that matter just plain old criminals? http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=595426
Sometimes somebody leaves a freaking backpack by itself in some corner by accident, full of clothes (like it happened here in my town), and the whole fucking town stops because they thought it was a possible act of terrorism.
Uh huh. Would you care to tell that to the victims of Eric Rudolf who died or were injured in Atlanta's Cenntenial Park during the Olympic Games? It was just a backpack, you know. No big deal. Right?
There's a big difference between living in fear, and being alert.
Naturally it's a stupid over reaction when it's only cloths. And naturally it's the autorities fault for not doing their jobs if it blows your head off.
Brazil went through a period of military control... the Military Era... it was almost like a dictatorship, don't twist the facts. It lasted for a couple decades. I don't think you can call it "new" because we were free prior to it.
Uh huh. Brazil lived under a Military dictatorship for over a generation, but you don't think you can call it new freedom? People don't just "disappear" in the US for political reasons, nor are they assassinated by political enemies. Happens in Brazil to this day according to AI. For example: http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR190052002
You think the civil liberities of Brazil would hold up in a comparison to those of the US? For that matter, of all these countries slamming the USA for "human rights violations" how many have a better record? The French who lead the charge? I don't think so: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/10/world/main654703.shtml. Ask your self this: If you HAD to be a prisoner at Guantanimo Bay, or in a Brazilian prison, where would you rather be? http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR190251999
As far as finger printing goes. I'm an immigrant to the US. I've been finger printed by the Immigration and Naturalization Services (INS) twice, Department of Defense (DoD) when I joined the USMC, Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) on a firearms background check, and god knows who else.
If you cash a check someone wrote to you at their bank, and if you don't have an account there, some banks finger print you.
If you have a driver's licence the DMV has a picture of your face they can splash on CNN or FOX News if they're looking for you. So does the US government if you have a US passport.
It's ridiculous to consider finger printing an infringement of civil liberties, when the government already has everything it needs to post your wanted poster all over the world.
How many people are risking their lives by land and sea to get into Brazil, Mexico, Haiti, Russia, Iran, Viet Nam, or North Korea? Is this the best place to live or not? I know why I'm here, why are you?
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