"vintage"

[aramism]

Having designed and built some of my own gear over the past few years, I can honestly say that (to my ears) new gear doesnt sound half as good as some of the old stuff. Everyone seemed to hit a good point that vintage + aged components add character to a unit (mostly by adding distortion from dried out caps, etc..)
With that being said, these new designs are "technically" far superior on any graph or chart that can measure THD, SNR, bandwidth, etc... BUT dont forget that by doing so, you're eliminating all of the "character" and "vibe"
I've used an SSL G for 10+ years. The first time I sat behind an SSL J, I thought it was broken. I couldnt figure out which button to hit to make all the good stuff come back to life.

ok but at what point does it become subjective to taste??? if you had worked on a SSL J or duality or aws 900+ and made hit records that everyone raves about the "sound and vibe" and then worked on an SSL G wouldn't it work the same way???

if andy wallace mixed a whole record using a brand new ssl board and a reissued la610 for vocals, it wouldn't sound good and have its own character???

 

[timislegend]

ok but at what point does it become subjective to taste??? if you had worked on a SSL J or duality or aws 900+ and made hit records that everyone raves about the "sound and vibe" and then worked on an SSL G wouldn't it work the same way???

if andy wallace mixed a whole record using a brand new ssl board and a reissued la610 for vocals, it wouldn't sound good and have its own character???

you are right... it would have it's own character.


but that's not what happened. it is what it is.

i think that saying... old vintage gear's (sound) is all hype would be a little presumtuous... because it is reveared and it is world class... and the reissues have changed A LOT since their predecessors.


they are both, indeed "great gear" ...but a lot of vintage gear was inconsistent... one pultec wouldn't necessarily sound like the other. that is what is relative to character.

-if you compare two brand new (reissue) la2a ...they will sound the same.

-if you compare two vintage la2a they will sound completely different.

-if you compare one vintage model and one reissue... they will sound WAYY different.

of course the vintage model and the reissue will have their own character... but all of the reissue's "character" sound the same.

nowadays all of the gear is fairly similar in it's level of circuitry therefore a lot of records made with newer gear can be easily distinguished from the vintage gear (obviously).

some people will object to the significant quality difference. that is the power of opinion.

 

[Fox Mulder]

It's just because people prefer the vintage sound. It's not a question of GOOD or BAD. It's just a matter of vintage and modern, and most people tend to prefer vintage due to aesthetical values. A psychology grad would be able to express upon this better.

 

[pipaguapique]

people are going to loath the Distressors in 30 more years or so, the way that they loath vintage 1176's or 1073's now...

i could probably say the same thing about the ADL600...

 

[codeman]

haha, totally!

wow, a gearslutz thread here on the sneap board

 

[Paulie!]

I dunno guys... there is just something about Tape Hiss that keeps pulling me back in!


I jest
-P

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

people are going to loath the Distressors in 30 more years or so, the way that they loath vintage 1176's or 1073's now...

i could probably say the same thing about the ADL600...

loathe [lohth]
-verb (used with object), loathed, loath·ing.
1. to feel disgust or intense aversion for; abhor: I loathe people who spread malicious gossip.

 

[Chris_P_Critter]

One thing to add here, since it hasn't been covered yet.

This argument can also be applied to Iron Maiden.

Old Iron Maiden = Awesome
New Iron Maiden = Terrible

You may continue to argue about what gear is better, but just know that I am totally fucking right about the Iron Maiden thing so... don't bother arguing about that.

 

[P-E]

^This.

 

[timislegend]

One thing to add here, since it hasn't been covered yet.

This argument can also be applied to Iron Maiden.

Old Iron Maiden = Awesome
New Iron Maiden = Terrible

You may continue to argue about what gear is better, but just know that I am totally fucking right about the Iron Maiden thing so... don't bother arguing about that.

 

[NickL]

One of the reasons a lot of vintage gear sounds great is because it contains materials that were eventually outlawed for safety reasons. It's pretty hard to justify having your employees exposed to massive doses of lead poisoning so that we can have a reissue of a particular microphone, preamp, etc.

Furthermore, the majority of components used to build audio circuits are designed for televisions, home electronics, and other devices. The companies who design these components don't care what they sound like, so when Mr. Coffee stops buying a particular capacitor, they discontinue it because they don't make any money by selling them to audio companies.

All of this means that these old units use parts with a particular character that you can't get with anything modern. It's not always better, but by and large the sound of these old units is what we're used to hearing on recordings.

Cheers.

 

[guitarguru777]

While I do agree with the above statement, some people just go overboard with it for sure. I mean lets look at Andy, hes a prime example of a guy that was turning out work with amazing quality and it was all ITB. I really don't think an 1176 vs the plugin is going to make or break a disc, but I do agree there are particular sound you cant get without them.

Its tough, I was a HUGE vintage guitar / amp guy for many many years. Old JMP's and JTM's were a RELIGION for me. Old 808's, Strats and Les Pauls, I mean it was a MJOR addiction. After my divorce when I lost everything I had to start looking to more modern gear. Thats when I found my love for the 5150, JCM 900, and Recto's.

I say if you can afford it, by all means go for it. But I dont think having 10 vintage compressors or pre's in your studio is going to be the be all end all of your career.

 

[drew_drummer]

Bitches and shit but hoes n trix....

N lead poisoning r00lz.

 

[aramism]

you know i'm not knocking old gear. i just think it's slightly overhyped. i appreciate "vintageness" in life and audio equipment. i understand that stuff from yesteryear has more character and sounds way different than reissues. i'm not complaining or saying that its bogus, please understand the reason behind this post. i'm just saying its too hyped where i feel its largely due to the biggest names in this industry happen to be seasoned veterans for the most part and they are used to working with gear they worked with when they started and it has a character. but newer stuff has character too, just sounds slightly different. if the top guys worked on more "less elite" stuff but still of high quality like prism converters, newer ssl boards, newer outboard gear, it would still come out good and have plenty of character and would get the same level of acclaim.

 

[timislegend]

if the top guys worked on more "less elite" stuff but still of high quality like prism converters, newer ssl boards, newer outboard gear, it would still come out good and have plenty of character and would get the same level of acclaim.

how do you know this?

 

[aramism]

well i suppose it's not a documented scientific fact lol but i have a hunch because those guys are at their level of success because of their ears and themselves not only their gear. if they were given professional level gear even "modern" gear their work would still be world class and just have a slight different feel to it. you think most people, audio professionals included, could pick out whether CLA uses an 1176 from 20 years ago on lead vocals or a reissue??? i highly doubt it.

 

[timislegend]

well i suppose it's not a documented scientific fact lol but i have a hunch because those guys are at their level of success because of their ears and themselves not only their gear. if they were given professional level gear even "modern" gear their work would still be world class and just have a slight different feel to it. you think most people, audio professionals included, could pick out whether CLA uses an 1176 from 20 years ago on lead vocals or a reissue??? i highly doubt it.

"Geoff Emerick said he could hear distortion on 3 of the channels on the brand new console we had delivered to EMI Abbey Road. We tested it & those 3 channels were +3dB at 55k. I then told my staff the new industry standard is 0dB at 100k." ~Rupert Neve, 1988


do not underestimate what people can and cannot hear, my friend.

 

[aramism]

ok. we are saying the same thing.

if geoff emerick used XYZ to record abbey road it would be XYZ that would be drooled over by audio engineers not chandler and pultec stuff which represents the "abbey road sound." this is exclusive of your findings that geoff emerick or alan parsons could hear a mosquito half a mile away in the wind.

your quote reinforced my argument that the talent and uniqueness is in the ear of the engineer. i'm not saying there's no character or value in vintage gear, only that it is subjective and relative to the associated records/engineers/producers. usually it's good mixers and good songs and great musicians that get talked about. evh is evh because of evh. not because of his gear. if you put a squier and crate practice amp in his hands he will sound like evh even without a marshall and a frankenstein.

 

[ahjteam]

ok. we are saying the same thing.

if geoff emerick used XYZ to record abbey road it would be XYZ that would be drooled over by audio engineers not chandler and pultec stuff which represents the "abbey road sound." this is exclusive of your findings that geoff emerick or alan parsons could hear a mosquito half a mile away in the wind.

your quote reinforced my argument that the talent and uniqueness is in the ear of the engineer. i'm not saying there's no character or value in vintage gear, only that it is subjective and relative to the associated records/engineers/producers. usually it's good mixers and good songs and great musicians that get talked about. evh is evh because of evh. not because of his gear. if you put a squier and crate practice amp in his hands he will sound like evh even without a marshall and a frankenstein.

you mean like this?

 

[aramism]

yes and like this





**read the youtube comments, that is on a really cheap $200 rig in some kids basement**