"vintage"

Yes, of course a lot of it is in the knowledge, feel and skill.
But let's be real here, just because he has absolutely monstrous chops isn't stopping the fundamental guitar tone he's getting in that video from sounding about as pleasant as it is to sniff dog shit.
There is some stuff that inherently sounds so shit that you can put the best production team in front of it and it will still suck.
Gear is still important, but the important thing is developing that feel, knowledge and ear to know how to use it to its maximum potential.
 
You would also have to take into account that "World Class, Cream of the Crop" engineers usually only work with musicians that truly have their shit together...

-P
 
ok but at what point does it become subjective to taste??? if you had worked on a SSL J or duality or aws 900+ and made hit records that everyone raves about the "sound and vibe" and then worked on an SSL G wouldn't it work the same way???

if andy wallace mixed a whole record using a brand new ssl board and a reissued la610 for vocals, it wouldn't sound good and have its own character???

We are dealing with an industry where EVERYTHING is subjective, but I think the point would be that certain pieces of gear "lend themselves" to a specific sound.
Sure, you could use a mackie eq, RNC, and a FAtso to try to obtain a warm, tube-like compression character... but why not just use a UA175 (for instance) that already has that character?
Here's a little thought...Thru the timeline of rock music recording history, electrical engineers have been shaping the way that we hear music. As they tweak their designs in workshops, bands are also crafting thier sound at home. In one magic moment, the pinnacle of technology and music create a "benchmark" that all music after it will be compared to. Arguably, the Beatles have created the most popular benchmark that people (not only music professionals, but also the general listening audience) are familiar with. That "sound" has been around for 50 years and unfortunately, you cant undo history. It is what it is.
If those electrical engineers had INA134 chips instead of transformers, resistors, and caps, then our perception of music today would be completely different... but thats not how it happened. They created gear with tubes, paper oil caps, and carbon composite resisitors with designs that have distortion, thump, and limited bandwidth that would make any contemporary electrical engineer cringe! Again, you cant undo history and thats what has shaped the opinion of what sounds "good".
Going back to the J vs. G thing (and new designs vs. old designs in general) the newer models are created to be as true to the source material as possible. They do that by limiting all of the cringe worthy stuff above. Essentially, what you put in is what you get out. The old designs that have distortion and grit created a more complex waveform, and if you can get that distortion to be in 2nd or 3rd order harmonics, then you will be adding sonic characteristics that seem to be more musical to your source material.
Eventually when the vintage gear's components age to a point where they are out of spec, its going to sound like complete garbage. Just because its vintage doesnt automatically make it good... but it sure does have a better chance out of the gate :D
again... this is just my long winded opinion.
 
if the top guys worked on more "less elite" stuff but still of high quality like prism converters, newer ssl boards, newer outboard gear, it would still come out good and have plenty of character and would get the same level of acclaim.

No one is stopping you (or anyone) from doing that. It hasnt been done yet for a reason... maybe you can be the one to crack the code. Then you could sit back and relax while CLA's clientele dwindles down to nothing. :popcorn:
 
ok. we are saying the same thing.

if geoff emerick used XYZ to record abbey road it would be XYZ that would be drooled over by audio engineers not chandler and pultec stuff which represents the "abbey road sound." this is exclusive of your findings that geoff emerick or alan parsons could hear a mosquito half a mile away in the wind.

your quote reinforced my argument that the talent and uniqueness is in the ear of the engineer. i'm not saying there's no character or value in vintage gear, only that it is subjective and relative to the associated records/engineers/producers. usually it's good mixers and good songs and great musicians that get talked about. evh is evh because of evh. not because of his gear. if you put a squier and crate practice amp in his hands he will sound like evh even without a marshall and a frankenstein.

no... that doesn't make sense.

i was retorting your comment... "you think most people, audio professionals included, could pick out whether CLA uses an 1176 from 20 years ago on lead vocals or a reissue??? i highly doubt it."

the fact is ...your original post says... "there is such a stigma about older being better. i call BS on a lot of it."

and what i am saying is... i don't think this should be pigeonholed into two categories.

we could argue ..."if adam never ate the apple... we would live forever!"

but the fact is... he did... so we don't.

some engineers make a living off their ears and skill... some don't.

some simply rely on the pace of there high end "world-class" vintage gear to usher them through great sounding guitars/bass/vocals etc.

you are stating the obvious regarding talent and skill.

i am saying the same thing i said before... there is huge difference between "character" in gear that is made today and "character" that is found in some pieces of gear from the past...

"character" - is simply a feature or trait that forms the individual nature of a thing.

you keep saying that new gear has character as well... and i am saying that the same "character" you speak of is found in every production model of that particular reissue... you will NOT find this with old gear! every piece is different and that is the definition of character.

my quote about emerick was inferring the use of standards based on the growing industry and the inconsistence of audio gear back then.

gear nowadays is a lot more consistent and precise which might be the bane of the recording industry.

people use old gear because ...that's how it is.
 
hey dan ... i love southern weather.

ha! and pretty much everything else you have worked on. :lol:


bendeth is my hero!