Viva Emptiness and Ghost of The Sun

Okay friends... I am going to tell you my opinion about the concept.
As I have said, the songs are not dependent of the concept, every song has it own story, so their is something that is irrelevant.
Before reading this, read the lyrics... you have to know what I'm talking about.
Note that I'm only describing the songs how they fit into the concept.
Excuse my english by the way, not feeling quite well...

Ghost of the Sun
Well, danus did it quite well, and it's very abstract so it could probably be put into the concept in any way :)

Sleeper
The actual beginning of the misery. The person(could be girl/boy-friend, mother/father, let's assume it's a "she", girlfriend) he loves gets badly wounded. She's in like a coma, and he's by her side:
"O my your fever's high
I lay my hands upon you"
etc. (won't do all the quotations)
She's dying... I'm not sure if she dies in this song, or later. But:
"The Bird is here, I can see the edge of his wing". When someone dies, it is said that a bird will appear by the window, to make it beautiful or "holy".
"If you die now"

Criminals
In this song, we get to know that someone did this, and it's not a disease. The situation is described a bit, and the dilemma is that he must be ably to protect her, but it's impossible.
"He came back to our house" you know what I'm talking about... It's a Criminal.

A Premonition
Yes, she has died now however. He's starting to get insane...
Some more about the case:
"The one who did this to us, well he got away" It means the one who separated them, the criminal, got away..
"Okay friends... I am going to tell you my opinion about the concept.
As I have said, the songs are not dependent of the concept, every song has it own story, so their is something that is irrelevant.
Before reading this, read the lyrics... you have to know what I'm talking about.

Will I Arrive
Well, he's pretty upset now... and the conclusion is like "look what they have done to me. I will never be the same"
etc.

Burn The Remembrance
He's pretty cool here... In their appartment, looking at memories, pictures from them and their relationship, and the song is pretty much what will replace them etc.
"I remember one time when we were abroad
I was laughing at a book I had bought
But you were standing against the hotel wall"

It's staring to get really sad. He's also staring to think about suicide here...
"Is this the right time to set one free and go away"

Wealth
Getting deeper into suicidal thoughts by now, but he doesn't dare to... yet.
"Will you be here when I try
I'm not set cannot do it yet"

He's speaking to her.

"Hold me when I die"

One Year From Now
You know, when something terrible has happened, or feeling really depressed, you could either think suicidal thoughts, but you could also think about the future, hoping of better times. This is what this song is about in the concept.
"One year from now will I be strong
Will I stand up for what I've become"

Walking By A Wire
Pretty wierd lyric, especially into the concept. Very hard to explain, read it and you'll know what I mean, it feels however into the consept.

Complicity
This song is about the circuit, the life, he wants to end the curcuit. It's definetly into the concept, but it's hard to see... "They control the circle" He could mean some kind of god.
"I dare not break the circuit
I rest only for a short time
This time I promise I won't give up"

These two lasts songs are hard to explain into the concept. Excuse me, but I guess you'll understand if you read the lyrics.

Evidence
Back to the concept for sure. To make a long story short; this is the part where he commits suicide. He only show us some abstract things like:
"I hold my breath and check the time
One minute no collapse
If you only knew what I would do for you"
It's suicidal methods however.
"If you die I will die too
Once we were heroes
But everything has changed since then"
She's dead, he's got to die. And so he does.
"I stay too long something's wrong
You walk out of the picture
I hold my breath and check the time
One thirty i collapse"
And there he goes, he passes the test!
"I'm the evidence
You passed the test and that's so good for you"

Omerta
And here he is, in the city of glass, for us known as something like "heaven". He's dead. The only happy song on the album, and that's no coincidence, he's dead, he meets some friends, and I guess he meets, his love.
"Come by you have come far
All I had I lost in the flood
Come sit with me at the bar
Tell me of progress strengthen my blood"

"Why have you waited so long"

etc.

Inside The City Of Glass
Inside "heaven". It's instrumental, but still you can get an opinion... it's like a song of eternity, eternal death. He's dead, she's dead, forever...

The End
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Please don't whine too much about things I've missed etc. Allways in these concepts and deep lyrics, there are things you cannot understand and explain... And I'm really not the best man explaining abstract things in English.

However, I hope you understand my opinion, I hope you will listen to the record with this opinion, and you will feel more sad listening to it.
It's a sad concept, and, please try to understand instead of whining, there are many coincidences, if my concepts is all bullshit, isn't there? Agree me on that one at least.

Thank you for reading. And now.. I've shared my deep opinions and reactions, it's pretty sensitive, so again, please rather understand then whine :)
 
Yeah it's a nice idea, eventhough it's not completely waterproof (most of the songs have some line or lines not suiting this concept/theme, like the "you'r fuckin dreams" line in omerta)

And I actually think Ghost of the Sun fits into the theme to, maybe with the maincharacter loosing a friend because of betrayal "I trusted you, you lied", maybe this "betrayal" is the same action as described in "criminals" but in a more direct placement in time, like the direct rage after the deed of this friend/foe-

Anyway, I think, even if it's not a concept, it is a nice theme dealing with loss and emptiness, seen from different angles and time-perspectives.
 
First of all, poetry is never waterproof.

And yes, the ghost of the sun, is probably in the concept, and I actually list it too, but I don't think it has got to do with the "him and his love"- concept.
It's more like the thing you said on MSN, with some friend or something ;)

It's likely that it's deeper then this, but I just wanted to show you my opinion about the basic concept, and I think you could understand it quite well.
 
Originally Posted by Varg-
Ghost of the Sun
Well, danus did it quite well, and it's very abstract so it could probably be put into the concept in any way

Thanks! Did i ever explain the lyrics of 'How i enjoy the light' to you? (yes i know all knowing Katatonia fans, don't you spoil the joke right now.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Varg-

Criminals
In this song, we get to know that someone did this, and it's not a disease. The situation is described a bit, and the dilemma is that he must be ably to protect her, but it's impossible.
"He came back to our house" you know what I'm talking about... It's a Criminal
Quote:
It reminds me of my old relationship. Hehe. The Cunt.
Varg- said:
Complicity
This song is about the circuit, the life, he wants to end the curcuit. It's definetly into the concept, but it's hard to see... "They control the circle" He could mean some kind of god.
"I dare not break the circuit
I rest only for a short time
This time I promise I won't give up"

Well, you look at it as a down going spiral. that will explain it. If it doesn't.. well..
Varg- said:
Omerta
All I had I lost in the flood

So he did drown himself.. hm. or he drank too much beer...

Oh, BTW. My dog is going to be named 'Varg'.

I'm sorry for fucking-up the entire reply. I'm very tierd. )SP!>??)
And i was listening to MAlevolent Creation - Premature Buriaaáááááááál!
 
I too just bought the album. Fucking nice! I've listened to it like 5 times in the last 2 days.

Let me say something about American radio...its sucks the mother of all ass. Bands like Katatonia, Opeth, Porcupine Tree, etc. never get played. So some of us are late coming to the table with all of this great music from Europe.

One glowing salvation exists, and that is satellite radio. They play everything, and its through these outlets, and some word-of-mouth, that some great music is finally getting its due.
 
I have had Viva Emptiness since it came out (twas' my intro to Katatonia :) ) and I have to say I thought there was a theme to it too, before knowing anything about it before hand. I still like to think there is a conceptual story, even if it wasnt intended. Everything just ties in so well with reoccuring themes (Criminals, Evidence, Omerta: all crime/mafia related) and the "do do , do do do do...." occurs both in A Premonition and Omerta. I mean the whole thing reads like a murder mystery to me...

But you can't do much other than take Jonas' word for it that there is no concept, just a loose theme :). I'll just continue to live in my murder mystery world :p
 
The thread isn't about personal opinions about VE. The thread is about the concept.
So read my post about the concept on the other page, would like more comments.
 
o.k. even if i won't believe Renkse i can't see any concept that's becoming much clearer to me. yes, i can trace a more complex story line.. but don't relate it to a murder or the mafia in a material sense, it's the same idea but everything is moved to another, more abstract level, i agree it's a personal experience though.
i think the character in this 'affair' that really matters is only one, the main character, the story teller. there appear other people too but i don't think they intrigue me with something very important they do or not do or just for being a part of it - and that's exactly because of the way it has been told. it's а strange approach and i don't think it's selfish or something. maybe a feeling in his subconscious.
the tale itself has some kind of a deaden cover on it - crucial happenings are alredy gone through, done, he's composed in the end. and what he have is kinda ironic confirmation such things (will) happen to him because of his sick nature, feelings and opinion on life.
i hope the above is not complete nonsence and you can understand a bit :ill: .
@Varg: your idea is interesting, i'll 'try' it next time i listen to VE.

hmmm... so what's coming of it then.. Jonas has made up wrong (in a way) versions for every song on the album only for not telling us the real one, even enough concealed (you know he can do it perfectly if he want), story?!
 
Okay... I think I understand. I tried to base my concept on concrete stuff, things that actually are written, and that you all could agree with. When it comes to abstract things which you are talking about, it becomes so individual. And personaly, I'm not really interested in ppls personal experiences of the lyrics. I try to found out what Renkse really meant by the lyrics. That's the interesting part for me.

Yeah, as I said. All the songs on the album has it's own story, beginning and ending. What Renkse has told us is the truth. But I think he hides something, and hiding doesn't mean lying. I mean this concept is good stuff, deep stuff, beautiful stuff and could be really personal stuff. He could have dedicated the album to some kind of girl etc. and you know, Jonas is veru shy. I don't think he would let us know the secrets of this album, if we didn't ask him.
 
hmm.. i think the history here repeats itself now.. whatever.
i don't insist knowing the 'deeper' (real) background, if i was Jonas i wouldn't tell it either.
VE is art in the end, therefore allegoricial, indirect, concealed, etc. i don't wanna miss this touch.
imagine! to mark time is the boring thing to me.
 
So... now you think there might be a concept after all?
Before I put up my concept everyone were sure of that there was no concept. I don't say that you did, but it's nice to here someone agree.
I think it's real lame and boring to never think for your self, to wait for Jonas to tell you "Hi! There is a concept." People should think for them selves.
This is not dedicated to you Drynwhyl, you're nice :) But to those who appeared in the start of the thread, saying "there is no concept" and then don't want to take the discussion or anything...sad.
 
it's nice to share thoughts with you, Varg :cool:
you've got it right, it's not only about being really serious with suppositions all the time but to mess about a bit with your mind too.
 
Varg- said:
I just gave my theory about a possible concept...

:rolleyes:

Yeah, I would call that analyzing.

Anyway, your theory is as good as anyone's, like I said before.

@L0bster: I don't think an analysis can be waterproof, especially when discussing abstract matters like poetry, and when the poetry hasn't spawned from your own mind.
 
viva emptiness in itself is a piece of beauty and just because weve been told what the band meant whilst writing thi doesnt mean idividual interpretations are invalid its always great to hear other peopls views on thios stuff a lot of the things that varg was asaying definately occurred tome although i never thought of it as a concet album but the idea s definately intresting and recognisable but still the dreams lyric in omerta puts a bit of doubt to me really i mean if her dreams meant nothing to him surely they can only have been so close?
 
Hmm... it was pretty difficult to understand what you since you didn't use dots like "." .

But that thing about dreams could be about she wanted him to keep living but he didn't want to? Her dreams was that he should live a happy life whithout her, but he refused? :)