Viva Emptiness and Ghost of The Sun

[regret remorse repent repeat.]

good call didnt think of that one. i guess this is a good kinda thread cos theres no wrong answer everyones opinions just as valid as the next.

 

[Varg-]

Thanks.
Yes, correct! The sad thing is that I'm the only one who has shared my concept.

 

[kambouris]

@varg:have you listened to pain of salvation's remedy lane??it tells of a story quite similar to your explanation on VE

 

[L0bster]

Thanks.
Yes, correct! The sad thing is that I'm the only one who has shared my concept.

Hey don't forget final vision.

 

[requiem]

I think it's interesting and rather bizarre that people can suggest there is no theme, at least in part, running through the songs that goes deeper than a 'sad atmosphere'. It's very obvious that Jonas is not telling the entire truth when he dismisses any conceptual design for the album.

'Sleeper', 'Criminals', 'Complicity', 'Evidence', 'Omerta' (which is the Mafia phrase for the public keeping mob secrets and not running to the police), are ideas which have never appeared in anything Katatonia have done before, yet they are all about either breaking the law or paying for a break in the law. It seems fair enough to say that there is a general story about love, betrayal, crime, prison time, and death after release. The details are obviously left up to the individual, but surely there is enough here to suggest that something is going on more than a mere 'collection of dark songs'.

 

[Varg-]

@varg:have you listened to pain of salvation's remedy lane??it tells of a story quite similar to your explanation on VE

Ok, no, nevery heard of it actually...

 

[kambouris]

anyway the concept you have in mind is something like i had in mind but couldn't find some missing links.thx and btw you should get to listen to it it's awesome

 

[Varg-]

damond, Okay, nice. I'm gonna check it up I guess

requim, yeah... The most of the ppl has realized, I guess, that it is a theme, but not a concept. Have you read mine btw?

 

[Demonspell]

I highly recommend Remedy Lane, which is one of the most emotionally intense albums I've ever heard, and parts of its concept are highly disturbing...A Trace Of Blood and Rope Ends are about a miscarriage and a failed suicide attempt respectively.

 

[The Scourge]

I find the unifying theme/story behind the last Isis album, Oceanic is utterly brilliant. As far as originality and execution goes, I would definitely say it rivals the great "theme" albums like EOS's "Crimson" or Opeth's MAYH.

 

[requiem]

damond, Okay, nice. I'm gonna check it up I guess

requim, yeah... The most of the ppl has realized, I guess, that it is a theme, but not a concept. Have you read mine btw?

Yeah, I did, and I agree with some of it, but not the detail. Some of the things you suggest have never occured to me before and I don't really see it. I agree in the most part though.

As for the difference between theme and concept, I think there's a very fine line. I think Jonas has just stopped short at going all the way with a 'concept' album, which is the right thing because it's not 'Katatonia'. I love the fact that it's opaque. You can make what you want of it without having a strict narrative to follow (which can also be cool sometimes, but probably not in Katatonia if you get my drift).

 

[Varg-]

Okay, well no. As my pal Jonatan said, it's not water-proof. I had to improvice alot to detail it for you, things that I don't really knew or agreed with
But it's something like that anyway...

Theme = every song on the album is about the same kind of thing, in a way.
Concept = the album contains ONE story built by all the songs on the album.

 

[Deliverance6]

I can niether dissagree or agree with the Concept/Theme issue. I can say that I am enthralled in investigation for myself and find this issue compelling.

 

[Her own Pride]

Making an album with production and origionality like VE is tricky and difficult, and VE is a great album however there are only one or 2 stand out songs ie Evidence which is a great song.. I loved some of the old Katatonia stuff and quite frankly the whole lot could make one of the best "Greatest Hits" albums ever..... I hope their next album prooves just what a fantastic band Katatonia are, as so far only the dedicated can get within the heads... I know this band have the capacity to creating an album that features the very strongest katatonia quality which oncludes writing a song like evidence, like Teargas but pumping it full of that originality and brilliance that they do.....

quite frankly im very interested to see what the next album will be like! Its got a choice... either VE number 2, back to LFDGD/Tonights Decision or a complete combination of the 2... however they could move on from all routes.. but the way they have travelled in the music so far leaves the next stage very open and confused.....

one thing i will say is that a similar band "PAradise Lost" released Host a while ago (that i consider their best songwriting) I wonder what will be left as the classic Katatonia album... for me its still a cross between Discouraged Ones and LFDGD.. still 2 albums aint bad

 

[requiem]

Theme = every song on the album is about the same kind of thing, in a way.
Concept = the album contains ONE story built by all the songs on the album.

Then if we're going by this unofficial definition, I'd make the supposition that 'VE' is more of a concept, albeit a very clouded one. The tracks clearly aren't about "the same kind of thing" as you put it, but do instead hint towards a narrative buried under plenty of abstract stream of consciousness writing.

I can follow a story, whether real or imagined, specifically from the texts. There are enough indicators there to suggest to me that the protagonist is involved in, or framed for, a crime, does jail time, is release and murdered. I think even the most amateur of textual analysers would recognise that.

I daren't go further with details, as they would simply be constructed from my imaginings, and are therefore neither valid nor something I'd wish to share.

 

[Varg-]

Yeah, Crimson and MAYH are great albums. Both of them are official concept-albums, and Crimson has only one song so that's pretty obvious
This concept is more hidden... But I have come to that point where I can say: I know there is a concept.