vocal crapness

[kidkunjer]

I'm at my wits end when it comes to vocals...
my voice has been compared by others to kurt cobain and billy corgan (at different times) and i'd like to keep it that way, only i can't do the whole vocal heat/fry scream thing at all. I've tried every damn technique out there, and it just sounds crap and makes me completely incapable of singing in tune for about seven days (ie vocal damage). I mean i can't even yell out at all. (i've just had to come to terms with my voice just aint made that way) This leads my vocals sounding flacid and flaky in comparison to the grrr of the metal behind it, and the chorus' are just weak sounding.
I like to work by myself and don't really want to get a singer in to sing my words...
I've used just about every kind of compression and distortion i can lay my hands on tried throat modelling resonance emulators and mutators, but it sounds like ccccrap.

are there any ways to cheat it? make my voice sound more aggressive without wrecking my weak vocal chords? or should i just hang up my mic and call it a day?

is there an alternative?

the style i'm going for isn't even that hardcore... i like the commercial goth stuff like manson and NIN...

 

[crillemannen]

Any clips?

 

[ArnaudM]

If you don't like any of the results you get, it is mainly for two reasons :
1- Subjectivity. It is very difficult to get used of your own voice.
2- Lack of vocal technique.

There is no electronic gear on this planet able to give you the voice you want and need. Good singing lessons can.

 

[kidkunjer]

clips of what? myself?
I'm not sure how to post a clip of something i can't do lol. I could post a clip of me straight singing, but as soon as i try to yell i just choke and cough and there is no sound.
i can't even shout normally like if i'm angry or whatever; my voice gets louder but no crunch

 

[kidkunjer]

If you don't like any of the results you get, it is mainly for two reasons :
1- Subjectivity. It is very difficult to get used of your own voice.
2- Lack of vocal technique.

There is no electronic gear on this planet able to give you the voice you want and need. Good singing lessons can.

i kind of feel deep down like you're right, only i really really wish you weren't.
maybe i need to move planet

the thing is, if i get the screams, will i lose the cobains? i don't want to alter my voice (for the reason that metal isn't the only music i make, i also do folk and 60s style psychadelic stuff).

 

[Leonfrost]

clips of what? myself?
I'm not sure how to post a clip of something i can't do lol. I could post a clip of me straight singing, but as soon as i try to yell i just choke and cough and there is no sound.
i can't even shout normally like if i'm angry or whatever; my voice gets louder but no crunch

That's a big indicator right there to me that it's your technique. Angry, reflexive yelling without the use of technique is almost instinctive, and a completely different process from any kind of musical screaming. Is it possible that you're trying too hard to use the technique you don't fully grasp, and in the process have untrained your instincts?

 

[colonel kurtz]

spend the next 8-10 years going through a bottle of whiskey and 2 packs of smokes a day...that'll get you the grit you're looking for!

 

[avrinder]

Until Ezmix comes out with the whiskey/cigarette grit preset, you're stuck.

 

[oroinvictus]

Vocal grit and volume come from technique.

 

[LeSedna]

Please record yourself even just trying to do that technique, and if possible do a transition between your comfort zone to a fry technique in the same note if you get what I mean, even if you cough or anything (don't feel like it sounds stupid and don't be shy). I'm sure it's possible to hear from it why you block there.

It's 100% a technique problem. I myself, even if it doesn't sound good yet, can do some rock vocal fry and even push it to a higher note or black metal style even if I need the training (vocal chords being muscles) to sustain that for more than 10 or 15mn. I unlocked it with experimenting, I dunno if I'll ever use it seriously, but it is definitely a technique problem. It has a lot to do with using your belly for respiration and letting the air flow through in your throat a relaxed way instead of creating tension because psychologically in the beginning we tend to associate "vocal fry = angry = tension" unconsciously. Also, very good and long warming up is 50% of a good vocal technique

 

[StefTD]

yep, probably your technique, it's hard for me to describe it, especially in English, but technique saves your
life when it comes to raspy, brutal vocals. I started growling when I was 13, had some breathing and vocal
lessons when I was pretty young and I trained it alot.
Sang a few years in a death metal band, now a black metal band with a pretty wide vocal range and I rehearse
3-6 hours every week (just singing, 1-2 hours breathing exercises everyday) and I have no problem going from
normal singing (my normal singing voice just sucks, but that's a different story) to death growls, screams or
mid heavy hardcore shouts and do them for hours.
Just never push your throat to hard and stop as soon as it hurts!

You can do the smoke and whiskey part, too, but it might change your normal voice, too
and at least the breathing exercises will help your normal voice alot.

 

[SethTheGreat]

You're not incapable. People who scream like that for hours at a time without hurting their vocal chords have developed ways to make those sounds without stressing their vocal chords.

My pal Brian says he doesn't even use his vocal chords. He forces air through his throat and uses the walls of his throat as a "vocal chord"

Buy the Melissa Cross "Zen of Screaming" DVDs, take them seriously and give them a lot of time.

 

[oroinvictus]

Buy the Melissa Cross "Zen of Screaming" DVDs, take them seriously and give them a lot of time.

+1, that DVD taught me so so so much about screaming. Practice, practice, practice.

 

[The StabbinCabin]

That DVD sucks and whisper screams fucking suck even more.

 

[ArthurD]

That DVD sucks and whisper screams fucking suck even more.

Man, I agree. That sucks, you could DO damage if you are unluck.

 

[kidkunjer]

i have the dvd but i kind of ditched it because it made my throat ache. not in a sore throat kind of way, but like it had pulled a muscle. I tend to jump into things with both feet and end up injuring myself before i really know what i'm doing. its a weakness of mine... my body is a cage and all that crap.

she recomends doing it once a day i'd do it every ten minutes, eager to see results quickly and then rip my voice apart.

I'm too shy (or narcissistic) to post myself failing at screaming on the internet. sheesh if i was someone else i'd laugh my ass off at me with the feeble squarks i can produce.

my current theory is to wait a couple of days till i can speak again (yeah i blew out my vocals just before i posted the OP) and then i'll give the mellissa cross thing another go and not skip to the end.

i was skeptical about the technique too, but to my ears i really can't tell the difference between it and a "real" scream.


has anyone on here had real difficulty with it but gone on to be successful? that would cheer me up no end...

 

[searanox]

1) How old are you? If you're younger then your voice just isn't going to sound the same as 20-year-old plus vocalists. When I was 16-17 and trying to do death metal vocals, I didn't sound particularly great, both because I was inexperienced but also just because my voice hadn't fully developed. Give it time.

2) Technique is important. You cannot get away with simply yelling. Volume and aggression are things you develop over time. Ever screamed at someone when you were angry and found yourself unable to speak afterwards? That's the opposite of what you want. Practice breathing and pushing air up through your throat in a controlled manner. There are tons of vocal exercises out there and they work for any style of vocal, not just regular singing, so find one that you're comfortable with.

3) Your throat will get sore. When it does, stop, rest, and try again the next day. Pushing yourself too hard will only cause damage. That said, there is no "damage-free" style of extreme vocals, and that Melissa Cross stuff will work for some styles but not for many others. You will have to accept that some harsh vocals will put strain on you. Even the best get a bit hoarse after a day in the studio, and they know when to take a break as well.

4) Focus on shaping a sound. Make sure you have fundamentals down before you try actually singing along to songs. Consider how to create different phonemes and try to nail them in isolation before moving on to performing full vocal lines. You will develop technique faster that way. Protip: put some paper or magazines in front of your ears to help cancel out your "inner" voice and hear what you're actually doing, rather than what you think you're doing. You'll be surprised.

5) Record yourself, understand what your voice actually sounds like, and find a style of music that fits. Don't try to sound like someone else - because you can't force that. I do death metal vocals but I will never sound exactly like Dan Swano, or Peter Tägtgren, or whoever else. Am I super happy with it? Not always, but other people seem to think my voice can get pretty brutal so it's all a matter of perspective.

6) Finally, simply accept that some people can't do certain types of vocals and move on. My black metal voice will always be a shriek rather than a low rasp, because that's just what my voice does. You can't change what's there, but you can take full advantage of what you do have.

Oh, one last note - don't rely on effects. They will improve the way you sound (especially compressors), and it's true that many popular bands (especially in the -core scenes) use distortion, compressors etc., but that will not fix any flaws you do have. If you don't sound good without effects then you won't sound good with them either. Effects are important to improving your sound but if you need more than compression and some modest EQ and verb/delay to sound good, you're doing something wrong.

 

[hurdy]

Bring your scream into the chest area somehow, sort of like when you do a burp.
You shouldn't need to yell, just bring out the chesty sound

 

[kidkunjer]

1) im 30, so age isn't an issue... been trying since i was like 13.

6) i hope that doesn't mean i should give up...

 

[coreyb]

sing falsetto. then push. loud. the raspiness will come from back of the throat/nasal cavity. as soon as you use your true vocal cords -> pain.
transition between falsetto note and raspiness. practice.