were Slayer so good they killed thrash?

[kollex]

i was going to answer to some muppet in the new found glory thread but i deicided this point deserved to be in its own thread than in that one

punk in the mainstream is dead. whats now called punk it now sugar coated MOR which has nothing to with what punk was originally about

do you think what will happen to death metal with the arrival of killswitch engage , shadows fall and co

i am very anti eltist in terms of metal , but i heard a shadows fall song and all it seemed to be was a watered down Slayer. it made me wanna do 2 things

1 skip the track
2 find my missing copy of reign in blood and buy a copy of which ever album has dead skin mask on it

come to think about it ,im not to bothered about Shadows fall if gets kids into Decapitated and Gorerotted. Its just i expected them to be a lot better and a lot more original. there is a theory that Slayer killed thrash with reign in blood as it was so good that people just wanted to imitate it rather than find their own way of thrash. i didn't buy into this, but the amount of acts who seem to like borrowing (or in fact stealing) Slayers ways of doing things off that album seems to increasing especially amongst the worst of the more commerical metalcore acts (at least they were ripping off Slayer instead of soemone like Machine Head.

also if anyone could point me in the direction of any innovative thrash acts , it would be greatly appericated

 

[speed]

I would say they influenced Thrash. They have sort of become the Black Sabbath of thrash, which I think is great. Yet, there are some problems, most of these slayer ripoffs, have nowhere near the intensity, nor the energy and inventiveness. Instead of throwing out most musical conventions like Slayer used to do, the new bands stick to a tried and true program of formulaic thrash. However, alot of the german bands, and swedish bands seem to also be inspired by Testament, Dark Angel, and Kreator. What i can say, is that does ayone ever notice a strong metallica influence in any thrash band? I sure dont, and I am glad of it.

 

[Life Sucks]

Slayer did not kill thrash. In fact, I can't think of any bands that are pure Slayer ripoffs. There are some great thrash bands that have some Slayer influence among other influences. For instance, the band Dew Scented (great thrash band by the way) incorporate some definite Slayerisms into their sound, but they also incorporate death metal riffs and blastbeats, as well as some At The Gates influence. There is nothing wrong with throwing elements of different bands together to create your own sound. Other good modern thrash bands are The Crown, The Haunted, and Carnal Forge. Destruction is a great original old school thrash band that has been around since the early 80s and is still going strong. I suggest you check out their latest CD, Metal Discharge. I also suggest that you check out Impact, the latest CD from Dew Scented. It is very heavy, brutal thrash that borders on death metal - IMO one of the best releases of 2003.

 

[Flaming Death]

I like Slayer, I own almost all of their releases. I like Shadows Fall too I have two of their releases. the other one Mp3s.

I think Shadows Fall is a great band. They started out in the Mass. hardcore scene from the split of a band called Overcast. They have some incredible stuff on all of their records especialy this great instrumental called lead me home. they have ripping solos and great riffs.

I do like Decapitated etc. too but Shadows Fall have nothing to do with getting people to like heavier stuff.

 

[bloodfiredeath]

do you think what will happen to death metal with the arrival of killswitch engage , shadows fall and co

No. Metal and death metal's demise has been predicted by many for a long time now and I don't think it will ever happen on a level that affects me. Also, the two bands you name here are far away from anything I consider death metal so I don't care how many people listen to them.

By the way, good call on Tomorrow, my favorite Moz song...

 

[Tavaron]

were Slayer so good they killed thrash?

No.

 

[stefan86]

I dont really see a Slayer influence in Shadows Fall.
Shadows Fall is more a combination of the new thrash scene and more commercial bands like In Flames + the hardcore influence.
I think they're a pretty good band, at least when it comes down to songwriting and technicality.

 

[Tavaron]

I dont really see a Slayer influence in Shadows Fall.
Shadows Fall is more a combination of the new thrash scene and more commercial bands like In Flames + the hardcore influence.
I think they're a pretty good band, at least when it comes down to songwriting and technicality.

No, Slayer is defiantly an influence. Listen to Stepping Outside the Circle, it just scream Slayer (it also screams worst song on the CD too, imo). I think Shadows Fall is more of a In Flames, Metallica, Megadeth, Testament, Slayer, Pink Floyd (the acoustic parts), and some hardcore shit.

 

[genocide roach]

nah. metal goes through phases, just like any other form of music. right now the big metal media trend is metalcore *sits here and listens to lamb of god*. in terms of popularity, it is the new nu metal. and look at killswitch engage and shadows fall, then compare them to decapitated. there is a world of difference. for one there is no singing. and i think that is a major key for success in modern popular music. i cant think of many big bands that dont incorperate singing (or rapping *pukes*). when you look at modern popular music you see a couple of things. groove and singable melody. somthing to make it easy for even the stupidest jackass to get into and understand. i simply dont see that happening with decapitated. or slayer for that matter. slayer got big because everyone in the METAL community seemed to agree it was good. but i doubt if anyone outside of the metal scene will like it or understand it.

so with that said, i dont really see how slayer destroyed thrash and i dont think bands like KSE will do the same for death metal. slayer got big by bein a great band. KSE is lightyears away from any death metal band. there is not even a comparison! same with shadows fall.

now if you wanna point the finger at any single band to popularize DM and BM, point it at CoF. atleast they were at one point black metal.

 

[kollex]

Shadows falls and KSE arent death metal but the general public percive them as so. acutually a lot of people percive slipknot and static x as being death metal. in the same way good charlotte and blink 182 arent punk but are commonly percived as punk.

also CoF haven't got MTV behind them whereas in the states KSE and Shadows falls are going off on a MTV sponsored tour.

i suppose its hypocritical to have a go at Shadows Falls ripping off Slayer when i enjoy the current crop of US ATG ripoffs. it just that ripping off slayer has gone beyond a art form and into the realms of farce.

the track i heard was indeed stepping outside the circle off the in the eyes of death III comp. what are tracks nearer to Shadows fall original style

 

[Life Sucks]

a lot of people percive slipknot and static x as being death metal.

Lol.

 

[kollex]

its a very common thing for people to say.

my old flatmate said he was into death metal acts like Slipknot and Static X and a lot of the kids i used to go to college with went by the policy that were good death metal acts (Machine head KSE slipknot Slayer and Otep!) and nastier ones that i was forbidden to play them again usually those of european origin (althought they liked the haunted) often ironically not death metal (Opeth, Bathory, Immortal ,Dimmu Borgir, Mayhem , Enslaved Mastodon). if it was european (or mastodon) they generally didnt want to know as it was all "CoF ripoffs". there were a few who however through getting into Slipknot got into CoF and thus got into extreme metal. i imgaine Shadows Falls and KSE does the same in the states in a certain respect although less directly.

a lot of people know what they like they just don't know what it is and saying your into death sounds a lot cooler than saying your nu metal (saying you were into nu metal was very uncool it denoted that you were a Linkin park fan thus a geek, if you were into nu metal it was either to be called death or alternative metal).

at least they were into some metal bands (one even liked Hammerfall and Celtic Frost) and usually the better nu metal ones (although Otep were definitely not one of those)

what annoyed me is the sheer majority wouldnt even try listening to what acutally was death metal and instead operated a sort of mid range elitism which is as bad as any NSBM obessed loser.

 

[genocide roach]

Shadows falls and KSE arent death metal but the general public percive them as so. acutually a lot of people percive slipknot and static x as being death metal. in the same way good charlotte and blink 182 arent punk but are commonly percived as punk.

also CoF haven't got MTV behind them whereas in the states KSE and Shadows falls are going off on a MTV sponsored tour.

i suppose its hypocritical to have a go at Shadows Falls ripping off Slayer when i enjoy the current crop of US ATG ripoffs. it just that ripping off slayer has gone beyond a art form and into the realms of farce.

the track i heard was indeed stepping outside the circle off the in the eyes of death III comp. what are tracks nearer to Shadows fall original style

actually i have seen CoF a number of times on MTV2 as well as dimmu borgir, nile, decapitated, and death. but mainly CoF they played it every other week on the long show and occasionally on the half hour ones. ever since CoF played ozzfest and got their shirts in hot topic they have gotten HUGE.
~gR~

 

[Tavaron]

i suppose its hypocritical to have a go at Shadows Falls ripping off Slayer when i enjoy the current crop of US ATG ripoffs. it just that ripping off slayer has gone beyond a art form and into the realms of farce.

the track i heard was indeed stepping outside the circle off the in the eyes of death III comp. what are tracks nearer to Shadows fall original style

Shadows Fall is defiantly not ripping Slayer off, they are just influenced by them, and the let it show. Listen to "Crushing Belial", "Of One Blood", and "A Fire in Babylon" for their distinct metal sound. They do some really nice acoustic instrumentals too, like "Lead Me Home", and "Casting Shade". And yes, they did get me into death metal, along with Opeth.

 

[stefan86]

No, Slayer is defiantly an influence. Listen to Stepping Outside the Circle, it just scream Slayer

I cant really agree, its really a lot more groove-oriented and progressive.

 

[genocide roach]

about shadows fall, i think their originality went down the shitter on this new album. of one blood, on the other hand, i really dig. its really unique
~gR~

 

[kollex]

actually i have seen CoF a number of times on MTV2 as well as dimmu borgir, nile, decapitated, and death. but mainly CoF they played it every other week on the long show and occasionally on the half hour ones. ever since CoF played ozzfest and got their shirts in hot topic they have gotten HUGE.
~gR~

i knew they were big but i tohught the likes of Chimaria and KSE were bigger.

i spoke to one guy from the US online who said Dammation and a day bombed but then again he was rather true.

i guess that the bands on major labels and roadrunner will always have a lsight advantage. over here its whoever is inteligent enough to tour the whole country rather than just london as no one gets any airplay at all (although apparently scuzz plays a few good acts)

but the underground metal fanbase is growing rapidly and bands like KSE and Shadows fall will increase it further. all this is a good thing.
as long as it dosent get like punk where around 85% of the popular bands all sound relatively the same.

i also wouldnt be surprised if satyricon and in flames are the next ozzfest over there

how cool will that be

 

[Trench]

Slayer are an influence on just about any modern metal band, whether it's directly or indirectly. You hear their influence in the Haunted's One Kill Woneder(I swear these guys just mumbled around the riffs from Reign in Blood, South of Heaven, and Seasons in the Abyss and came up with their own album, which yes sounds like Slayer), and you hear it on Decapitated's Winds of Creation, and yes you hear it in modern hardcore/thrash american metal bands too (Lamb of God and Shadow's Fall). Whether people like Slayer or not is one thing, but noone can deny the fact that they had one of the biggest impacts in metal history.

And no, Slayer did not kill thrash metal, they made it better, it pushed bands to try to be more extreme. Thanks to them, Possessed, and Venom bands like Death, Morbid Angel, Deicide, and Suffocation came out.

As for good modern thrash metal bands:
Invocator - Through the Flesh to the Soul
Nail Within - S/T
Soulless - Agony's Lament
Dew Scented (Forgot the name of their album)

 

[Heavy Metal Samurai]

Well, CoF cancelled playing at Wacken to play Ozzfest.... I know what I think of that

Whether you like Slayer or not, they are a big influence, it has been said before, but that's because it's a fact.

All this new Metalcore, (KSE, Shadows Fall, et al.) I see as commercial and not "Underground" or "Extreme" at all, and the likes of In Flames are leeching off this, softening their sound to appeal to a bigger crowd.

The haunted's albums get more accesable with each release, popularity grows as they sound more like a hardcore inspired band and they will make more money.

In Flames are turning into Slipknot

Slayer are/were a great band

Reign In Blood is a great album

These are my random contributions

 

[stefan86]

@Heavy Metal Samurai: One Kill Wonder is not more accessible than Haunted Made Me Do It, not by a long shot..otherwise I agree with your post