what are Nevermore's political beliefs?

[bball_1523]

I still don't understand these political compasses. I don't prefer to be labeled by the left or right scheme.

I don't see nevermore as any label, they just speak some truth imo, like in the song "optimist or pessimist."

 

[zortz]

I still don't understand these political compasses. I don't prefer to be labeled by the left or right scheme.

I don't see nevermore as any label, they just speak some truth imo, like in the song "optimist or pessimist."

Yes. It's why I said "for what it's worth". It's like any other sort of catagorization system, like grouping music into genres/subgenres, etc. It can't really reflect what a person truly feels or believes, it's just sort of a low resolution composite. Political Compass' approach is way better than the normal "left/right" or "liberal/conservative" labeling though. It at least allows you to show how you are liberal on some issues and conservative on others.

 

[derek]

Bah, If you need a compass to tell you what you think you're dumb! (not referring to you man, just generalising )

In short...take what ye want from Nevermore's lyrics, because thats all that was intended.

 

[Dead_Lioness]

In short...take what ye want from Nevermore's lyrics, because thats all that was intended.

The lyrics, are a MAJOR part of their amazing music.
I can't even imagin their songs without those influential words...
I do take what [b[I[/b] want from it, I agree 100% Derek.

 

[mReEtTaIlRsEkD]

 

[WhiteBeastofWotan]

"If chewbacca lives on endor, you must acquit!"

The thing about that episode that annoys me is that chewbacca doesnt live on endor.

 

[mReEtTaIlRsEkD]

True.

 

[Lunar Still]

He stopped drinking.

But which songs on TGE are the ones with those particular lyrics? The only one I can guess immediately would be My Acid Words.

And about taking what you want from the lyrics, I couldn't agree more. The whole LSD thing kind of alienated me when I first read of it, as I'm not really into drugs of any kind. But I realized pretty quickly that I still loved the songs, regardless of their content, and furthermore I still agree with ideas put forth in some other Nevermore songs, such as Inside Four Walls and TGE. And even though I don't use LSD, "drop acid, not bombs" is still a message I can get behind.

And Nevermore isn't the only band; Dave Mustaine is a born again Christian, and I'll always be a huge Megadeth fanboy.

 

[FretsAflame]

"If chewbacca lives on endor, you must acquit!"

The thing about that episode that annoys me is that chewbacca doesnt live on endor.

You miss the subtle irony then. They're suggesting that even if a 'chewbacca' defense was employed, he still fucked it up.

 

[El Stormo]

What on Earth is a Chewbacca defence? Is it when someone growls unintelligibly?

 

[derek]

But which songs on TGE are the ones with those particular lyrics? The only one I can guess immediately would be My Acid Words.

And about taking what you want from the lyrics, I couldn't agree more. The whole LSD thing kind of alienated me when I first read of it, as I'm not really into drugs of any kind. But I realized pretty quickly that I still loved the songs, regardless of their content, and furthermore I still agree with ideas put forth in some other Nevermore songs, such as Inside Four Walls and TGE. And even though I don't use LSD, "drop acid, not bombs" is still a message I can get behind.

And Nevermore isn't the only band; Dave Mustaine is a born again Christian, and I'll always be a huge Megadeth fanboy.

Well, Personal ruminations:

Born (The Retribution of Spiritual Sickness) - To me, at least, the song is a sad lament about the world decaying, due to our "spiritual sicknesses" finally catching up on us. In a sense, thats heavily spiritually orientated. Ie...If we were all embrace a more spiritual harmony than the TV/Fast-food/War mongering one we do now, then we would not be in the sad mess we currently are.

Final Product - "I'm told all your seeds are black" Loosely, this ties in with the idea of Seed Awakening. The idea that a spirtual seed lies within us waiting to be awaken, if the seed is black, then presumably the spiritual growth is non-existent, or actually evil.

That's just my own thoughts tho

 

[Necromunchkin]

FP, I think you have a great grasp on some of these ideas. Cheers, mate.

 

[Dead_Lioness]

^ agreed

 

[derek]

 

[zortz]

Bah, If you need a compass to tell you what you think you're dumb! (not referring to you man, just generalising )

In short...take what ye want from Nevermore's lyrics, because thats all that was intended.

The site doesn't tell you what you think. You already know what your own beliefs are. Having said that, after going through the questions on that site, people are often suprised at where they land on the graph, and with whom they share beliefs. (I believe this is often because people mislabel themselves, and/or associate themselves with what or who they think is "cool" in popular culture...but I digress).

The goal of the site seems to be to promote the idea of a more descriptive way of succinctly identifying your political leanings to others, rather than using the traditional "left" and "right" labels. I often refer to the site to show my basic political beliefs rather than saying that I'm "left" or "right", or "liberal" or "conservative". I think it's an interesting idea myself.

As for the lyrics, I never liked the idea of everyone having their own personal interpretation of lyrics. If a song has a different meaning for everyone, then what's the point really ? Lyrics should mean something, and express the beliefs of the author, or whoever the speaker/character in the song is. It's great if they promote thought, debate, introspection, etc, of the ideas expressed in the lyrics, but not of the meaning of the lyrics themselves.

I've never really enjoyed lyrics that were so nebulous that they could mean anything, or so obscure and/or personal that they are completely inscrutable to anyone but the author. This is probably why the focus of my enjoyment of music has always been with the music itself, not neccessarily the lyrics. The vocals are just another instrument to me. The lyrics themselves are more like a bit of frosting on the cake, if they're meaningful. Of course, I recognize the fact the lyrics can be meaningful to one person, but perhaps not another because of their experiences, whether the lyrics were interpreted correctly or not.

Just my opinion .

 

[derek]

The site doesn't tell you what you think. You already know what your own beliefs are. Having said that, after going through the questions on that site, people are often suprised at where they land on the graph, and with whom they share beliefs. (I believe this is often because people mislabel themselves, and/or associate themselves with what or who they think is "cool" in popular culture...but I digress).

The goal of the site seems to be to promote the idea of a more descriptive way of succinctly identifying your political leanings to others, rather than using the traditional "left" and "right" labels. I often refer to the site to show my basic political beliefs rather than saying that I'm "left" or "right", or "liberal" or "conservative". I think it's an interesting idea myself.

As for the lyrics, I never liked the idea of everyone having their own personal interpretation of lyrics. If a song has a different meaning for everyone, then what's the point really ? Lyrics should mean something, and express the beliefs of the author, or whoever the speaker/character in the song is. It's great if they promote thought, debate, introspection, etc, of the ideas expressed in the lyrics, but not of the meaning of the lyrics themselves.

I've never really enjoyed lyrics that were so nebulous that they could mean anything, or so obscure and/or personal that they are completely inscrutable to anyone but the author. This is probably why the focus of my enjoyment of music has always been with the music itself, not neccessarily the lyrics. The vocals are just another instrument to me. The lyrics themselves are more like a bit of frosting on the cake, if they're meaningful. Of course, I recognize the fact the lyrics can be meaningful to one person, but perhaps not another because of their experiences, whether the lyrics were interpreted correctly or not.

Just my opinion .

Thoughts are intrinsically personal though, regardless of how eloquently voiced. Without Warrel there to explain each song as you listen, you will obviously take what you want from it. I'd agree that the songs obviously have an intent on the part of the author, but exactly what that intent constitutes is - to an extent - noetic. I say that because I believe we all take what we personally want from it.

I'd argue that there is something fallacious in saying nebulous lyrics lack meaning. Their meaning may me extrinsic as opposed to intrinsic but I don't really agree with the value judgement in assuming the latter is more meaningful than the former.

Having said that, my main point was that while Warrel's lyrics obviously explore certain intended themes and ideas, the impact of those ideas is totally personal, he cannot feel what those lyrics mean for us, only impart his ideas and hope they find a good home.

As for the political compass, it's an alright idea, I concede. I think it's preferrable to have a multi-dimensional scale as opposed to a decisive, restraining one. Regardless, I still find it hard to believe any internet "quiz" can truely tell me how I feel or where my political allegiances lie, because it can never account for every situation, ever...and while a useful tool, I'd disregard it as (for the most part) ungenuine.

 

[Det Som Engang Var]

Very interesting Final Product

 

[zortz]

Thoughts are intrinsically personal though, regardless of how eloquently voiced. Without Warrel there to explain each song as you listen, you will obviously take what you want from it. I'd agree that the songs obviously have an intent on the part of the author, but exactly what that intent constitutes is - to an extent - noetic. I say that because I believe we all take what we personally want from it.

I'd argue that there is something fallacious in saying nebulous lyrics lack meaning. Their meaning may me extrinsic as opposed to intrinsic but I don't really agree with the value judgement in assuming the latter is more meaningful than the former.

Having said that, my main point was that while Warrel's lyrics obviously explore certain intended themes and ideas, the impact of those ideas is totally personal, he cannot feel what those lyrics mean for us, only impart his ideas and hope they find a good home.

As for the political compass, it's an alright idea, I concede. I think it's preferrable to have a multi-dimensional scale as opposed to a decisive, restraining one. Regardless, I still find it hard to believe any internet "quiz" can truely tell me how I feel or where my political allegiances lie, because it can never account for every situation, ever...and while a useful tool, I'd disregard it as (for the most part) ungenuine.

Well, I guess you've proven part of your point seeing that you seem to have misunderstood much of my post.

Again, the PC thing isn't perfect, but that doesn't mean it's not of any value at all. Certainly better than the traditional ways, which was my point.

I never said that inscrutable lyrics didn't have any value, as some seem to enjoy them. I just said I didn't like them that much, so ignore the lyrics and just focus on the music itself (e.g. don't study the lyrics and try to mine meaning out of them). I find some of that style of lyric writing a bit pretentious. You know, the ones where it's like "I'm going to say something in a way that's almost impossibile to understand which makes it sound like it's some huge philosophical epiphany when it's just some common sense thing that could be expressed far more simply." There's too much of that sort of thing in music. That doesn't mean that some of those sorts of lyrics have true deep meaning behind it that perhaps benifits some way from its obtuse delivery. Some people get off on that I guess (it sure makes people who figure it out feel smart). I just don't. Perhaps it's because I'm an engineer (reference: KISS [Keep It Simple, Stupid]). <shrug>

Note I'm not referring to eloquence here, but to obscurity, inscrutibility, and obfuscation in lyrics. Eloquence is fine and welcome.

Also, you seem to think I'm talking about Nevermore here. I already said in my previous message that I wasn't. I find NM's lyrics fairly clear. The meaning comes through pretty clearly (not that I always agree with all their presumptions, opinions, and conclusions).

Anywayz, I'm not on the NM board to discuss philosophy, so I think I'm done with this thread .

 

[derek]

Well, I guess you've proven part of your point seeing that you seem to have misunderstood much of my post.

Again, the PC thing isn't perfect, but that doesn't mean it's not of any value at all. Certainly better than the traditional ways, which was my point.

I never said that inscrutable lyrics didn't have any value, as some seem to enjoy them. I just said I didn't like them that much, so ignore the lyrics and just focus on the music itself (e.g. don't study the lyrics and try to mine meaning out of them). I find some of that style of lyric writing a bit pretentious. You know, the ones where it's like "I'm going to say something in a way that's almost impossibile to understand which makes it sound like it's some huge philosophical epiphany when it's just some common sense thing that could be expressed far more simply." There's too much of that sort of thing in music. That doesn't mean that some of those sorts of lyrics have true deep meaning behind it that perhaps benifits some way from its obtuse delivery. Some people get off on that I guess (it sure makes people who figure it out feel smart). I just don't. Perhaps it's because I'm an engineer (reference: KISS [Keep It Simple, Stupid]). <shrug>

Note I'm not referring to eloquence here, but to obscurity, inscrutibility, and obfuscation in lyrics. Eloquence is fine and welcome.

Also, you seem to think I'm talking about Nevermore here. I already said in my previous message that I wasn't. I find NM's lyrics fairly clear. The meaning comes through pretty clearly (not that I always agree with all their presumptions, opinions, and conclusions).

Anywayz, I'm not on the NM board to discuss philosophy, so I think I'm done with this thread .

Apologies then. I'd still take a different stance on the lyrics though, and although I specified Nevermore, I did not mean them exclusively.

Anywayz, I'm not on the NM board to discuss philosophy, so I think I'm done with this thread .

Come to philosophy board. I moderate there (badly! ) and we need more folks willing to philosophise.