I agree with you Ovid, except for the Slayer part. Theres a HUGE difference between SINGING about a subject and CONDONING it 
What are your thoughts on "The Glorious Burden"?
- Thread starter Iced In Flames
- Start date
I dont want a song about honor and pride. I want songs about the destruction of lots of shit and evilness running amok. I want Jon to get absolutly pissed off and start writing some evil sounding riffs again.Stormrider, many say is their best. Its about the Antichrist. Something Wicked. About the Antichrist. Burnt Offerings. Lots of religious stuff there. MORE!!!! Fuck the Red Baron and a 3 hour song about Gettysburg.
Blitzkrieg
Master Exploder
As much as I love Burnt Offering, and I think IE do the dark stuff well, I would not want them to write the same material over and over again. I am glad Jon has the balls to do something like this, and I can't wait to see the end result.
Well to be completely honest as a fan. He already HAS done the same thing over and over. Alot of the riffs are the same and Jekyll and Hyde I could have easily written. I dont want to hear 1000 authentic australian or Indian instruments like he's trying to find. I just want good fucking Iced Earth.
Reckless
Member
I just mad cause I was getting all pumped for this cd then matt left and just took all the wind from beneath my wings.
TheFourthHorseman
In The Twilight World
O-v-i-d said:Hi, you guys!
I´ve got one question:
What is wrong with the Red Baron?
I just couldn't care fucking less about the Red Baron. No matter how much you twist and turn it I'm not a history poof like that. I'm not saying that it can't be a good song,I just think that it's a poor subject if I think about myself liking the song,since lyrics are an important part of the song for me. To be honest I don't want to hear "honour,glory and pride" THAT much in Iced Earth songs...things like Ghost Of Freedom are awesome,cause it's personal,cause you can relate to that,but how do you relate to the Red Baron?
Maybe you can...you know it's just exactly like with this band from my city,Battlelore,that I've been listening to...not many could relate to Tolkien-metal,but I can...so you just have to try to see where people are coming from with their opinions.
O-v-i-d said:
"I don´t think I need a comment like this from Slayer" Slayer hasn't commented about the subject in this thread so far
I guess what Slayer was looking for was reactions like yours. I doubt they wanted people to go "Angel of Death! Hail Nazis!" I mean,they make their point very well. Just cause Araya's name is what it is doesn't mean that he supported the idea of an aryan race
Sorry to turn this into a Slayer discussion.
O-v-i-d
Universal Translator
Sorry, I didn´t want it turn into a Slayer discussion, either.
But I think I have to tell you something about the situation here in Germany, maybe then you can understand my opinion better:
I don´t know how many of you people are into the German public situation, but this is a theme you cannot touch very easily in Germany:
1. Many people here are very sensitive concerning the Nazi Era and if ANY German band would have done a song like Angel Of Death or something similar about WWII or concentration camps, maybe even with German lyrics, it would be a national scandal. I´ll give you an example: Some people here in Germany even called Rammstein nazis, because they used some old film material from the olympic games in 1936 in the "Stripped" video. I think this is FUCKING BULLSHIT. There were only some old sports scenes in this video, but some radio stations even banned the song from their program. I don´t know who and how many did this, but I think this shows a little bit the situation, we are confronted with in our country. Rammstein themselves also made a clear statement on their third album that they would never support radical thoughts or anything like that ("Links 2 3 4"). It was much more a tribute for the German pioneer film maker Leni Riefenstahl, who did these scenes.
2. I am not the one to say someone shouldn´t make a statement about WWII or the nazi era, but the question is HOW you do it. I would never call Slayer nazis (though someone might wonder about things like "Slaytanic Wehrmacht" or the very strange letter "S" in the name writing on the Reign In Blood cover, which is very close to the SS symbol). But I know that they didn´t want to say "Hail Nazis". But everytime I read the lyrics of Angel Of Death I do not lose the feeling that this song was written just a little bit thoughtlessly. It seems that it´s all about bloodthirst and butchering people and not a serious statement about a very very serious thing. (And especially we german people must take this theme very seriously as you see in 1.)
There are better ways to treat this theme (Angel Dust´s Enlighten The Darkness album for example: cool sound, cool artwork and intelligent and sensible lyrics about the German history in WWII)
3. I am tired of discussing this. Let´s return to Iced Earth: I think Jon should get the possibility to do what he wants and I think he will be doing well. I am looking forward to hearing the album, cause it might be interesting to get Jon´s perspective about historical events.
I hope I didn´t offend too many Slayer fans with my opinion, as I like Slayer very much, too. I just think that some things could have done differently!
But I think I have to tell you something about the situation here in Germany, maybe then you can understand my opinion better:
I don´t know how many of you people are into the German public situation, but this is a theme you cannot touch very easily in Germany:
1. Many people here are very sensitive concerning the Nazi Era and if ANY German band would have done a song like Angel Of Death or something similar about WWII or concentration camps, maybe even with German lyrics, it would be a national scandal. I´ll give you an example: Some people here in Germany even called Rammstein nazis, because they used some old film material from the olympic games in 1936 in the "Stripped" video. I think this is FUCKING BULLSHIT. There were only some old sports scenes in this video, but some radio stations even banned the song from their program. I don´t know who and how many did this, but I think this shows a little bit the situation, we are confronted with in our country. Rammstein themselves also made a clear statement on their third album that they would never support radical thoughts or anything like that ("Links 2 3 4"). It was much more a tribute for the German pioneer film maker Leni Riefenstahl, who did these scenes.
2. I am not the one to say someone shouldn´t make a statement about WWII or the nazi era, but the question is HOW you do it. I would never call Slayer nazis (though someone might wonder about things like "Slaytanic Wehrmacht" or the very strange letter "S" in the name writing on the Reign In Blood cover, which is very close to the SS symbol). But I know that they didn´t want to say "Hail Nazis". But everytime I read the lyrics of Angel Of Death I do not lose the feeling that this song was written just a little bit thoughtlessly. It seems that it´s all about bloodthirst and butchering people and not a serious statement about a very very serious thing. (And especially we german people must take this theme very seriously as you see in 1.)
There are better ways to treat this theme (Angel Dust´s Enlighten The Darkness album for example: cool sound, cool artwork and intelligent and sensible lyrics about the German history in WWII)
3. I am tired of discussing this. Let´s return to Iced Earth: I think Jon should get the possibility to do what he wants and I think he will be doing well. I am looking forward to hearing the album, cause it might be interesting to get Jon´s perspective about historical events.
I hope I didn´t offend too many Slayer fans with my opinion, as I like Slayer very much, too. I just think that some things could have done differently!
TheFourthHorseman
In The Twilight World
Jon HAS the possibility of doing whatever he wants. Of course he has,but then again it doesn't mean that we have to like it or that we shouldn't criticise it if we don't like it.
I really get enough history in high school. It's not that I'm not interested in it,I am really,but I would just rather have Jon getting to the Something Wicked concept now...this shit about the labels is stupid,not wanting to give CM an album like the Something Wicked one,not wanting to do it as the first album on SPV...
I really get enough history in high school. It's not that I'm not interested in it,I am really,but I would just rather have Jon getting to the Something Wicked concept now...this shit about the labels is stupid,not wanting to give CM an album like the Something Wicked one,not wanting to do it as the first album on SPV...
Lies and Perfidy
Gentleman of the Road
About the whole Slayer/Germany thing...I think it's good that bands like Slayer and Kreator ("People of the Lie") are still calling attention to Nazism and how much it sucks; ignoring stuff like this is how it starts up again. I don't think the world can afford to forget; in any case, I think Slayer IS taking it pretty seriously (and realistically).
If it helps any Ovid, Jeff Hanneman is actually very interested in the wars and so on, I have videos where they interview him and he has just been to the war museum in England etc. He also collects wartime memorabillia and so on. So he is quite educated in the subject (and I believe SS-3 from Divine Intervention was about a nazi too).
I can understand your point though
I can understand your point though
Isnt that what being an entertainer is al labout? Making the fans happy?TheFourthHorseman said:
TheFourthHorseman
In The Twilight World
Well in my opinion the best music comes from people who do what they want to,not what everyone else wants to. In the end it's impossible to satisfy every fan that wants this and that so why even try?
I'm sure that Jon wants to please the fans too,but I'd be sad knowing if "being an entertainer" was to him "all about making the fans happy". Besides,that'd probably drive him nuts.
I'm sure that Jon wants to please the fans too,but I'd be sad knowing if "being an entertainer" was to him "all about making the fans happy". Besides,that'd probably drive him nuts.
Blitzkrieg
Master Exploder
Its funny how people say things like that, but when Metallica take that attitude and make music for themselves they get bagged out for it...
TheFourthHorseman
In The Twilight World
Well you might've noticed that Iced Earth doesn't sue furniture companies either.
I didn't have any problems with Metallica doing the Loads though,seeing as I liked the music. I don't really think that people have been "bagging" Metallica for making the music they want to that much anyway,just more or less cause St. Anger is complete shit in most peoples ears. But anyway this isn't a Metallica topic is this?
I didn't have any problems with Metallica doing the Loads though,seeing as I liked the music. I don't really think that people have been "bagging" Metallica for making the music they want to that much anyway,just more or less cause St. Anger is complete shit in most peoples ears. But anyway this isn't a Metallica topic is this?
Blitzkrieg
Master Exploder
What I ment is that alot of people will agree that some of the best and most creative music is written when it is intended to satisfy the writers own desires, and not the fans, but on the other hand these same people are the ones that will bag out the likes of Metallica for doing just that. Indeed I can understand why people would be less than pleased with their behaviour about the whole Napster deal etc (even though I agree with them 100%), but so many people just jumped on the 'Metallica suck' bandwagon simply because they changed styles.
You are right though, this is not a Metallica forum, I was simply saying I think it is ridiculous how some people will say they want their favourite bands to write music for themselves and not the fans, but when the likes of Metallica do it they are in the wrong etc.
As for St Anger being shit, it maybe (even though I quite like it), but it will still go on to sell more than every IE record put together...
You are right though, this is not a Metallica forum, I was simply saying I think it is ridiculous how some people will say they want their favourite bands to write music for themselves and not the fans, but when the likes of Metallica do it they are in the wrong etc.
As for St Anger being shit, it maybe (even though I quite like it), but it will still go on to sell more than every IE record put together...
Jon can write about what he wants. Thats fine. But as a fan I hold the right to call it shit if I dont like it. He can write about all his little heart can muster that is important to him. Then when it sells 5 copies and its a huge failure he'll write songs people will like yeah?
