What do music fans want from the bands? The Labels? The Promoters? Help us out!

[MEGALOUD]

Fat chance of that happening. Yeah, the general public needs to change their perception so the labels can make money again.

Labels play a roll in the food chain, until bands are wanting or able to handle the distribution and marketing angles themselves, this will always be the case, it's a symbiotic relationship that benefits both. Times are a changing, I've been a musician marketing his own stuff for the last 19 years but with the help of several territorial licensing deals around the world as large as EMI, it just simply can't all be done by one entity, there is a never ending supply of options and areas to be marketed and distributed too in order to get the music out there. I do this because I love the music and I'm friends with many people in this nitch of music and likely because some people seek me out because they've seen my work / both artist and label. Perhaps you were talking about the major labels, I'm not sure, but I'm certainly NOT in it for the money or I would have moved on to a different genre of music long ago.

 

[Cheiron]

Lance you've also carved your niche. So I'm sure you have a fairly good idea of how well monthly sales will go. Most of your bands probably couldn't profit from more marketing (especially with the decline of certain printed magazines) than you already do, as the word about them gets to them eventually through whatever avenue they seek out bands within the power/prog genres.

And frankly, the kiddies are rarely turning out for those types of bands, so its hard to justify for many of those bands to tour.

And the 30-50 year old metal heads just don't turn out for shows that often, that or they are really picky who they will turn out for.

 

[MEGALOUD]

Lance you've also carved your niche. So I'm sure you have a fairly good idea of how well monthly sales will go. Most of your bands probably couldn't profit from more marketing (especially with the decline of certain printed magazines) than you already do, as the word about them gets to them eventually through whatever avenue they seek out bands within the power/prog genres.

And frankly, the kiddies are rarely turning out for those types of bands, so its hard to justify for many of those bands to tour.

And the 30-50 year old metal heads just don't turn out for shows that often, that or they are really picky who they will turn out for.

True to a point, I still get surprised when an album tanks that I thought would do really well, I still get surprised by one that does better than I expected and am always in "learning mode" And there are some youngsters showing up at shows these days thanks to promoters and bands and social media pushing things out there, but sadly, you are correct when you say the 30-50 year olds just aren't coming out like they used too. Their tastes have softened unlike mine :zombie:

 

[Sir Exar Kun]

And there are some youngsters showing up at shows these days thanks to promoters and bands and social media pushing things out there, but sadly, you are correct when you say the 30-50 year olds just aren't coming out like they used too. Their tastes have softened unlike mine

Its not necessarily tastes softening. Its more like the issue of having two kids at home under the age of 4, plus a job that starts between 7 and 8 in the morning the following day, and (in my case) NO ONE worthwhile comes to Columbus! Anything worth seeing requires driving to Chicago, Detroit, or Cleveland.

Tell ya what: if you can book Avian, Narnia, and Edgend for a Columbus stop, you've got one ticket sold already!!

LOL......

 

[Claus / Intromental]

I did have the initials wrong It's EMP Mercandising out of Germany, Jukka doesn't own it, sorry for that statement, he is a majority shareholder and director.

You mean the big merch company that has existed for 20 years now?
Hmmm, Jukka might be in charge of EMP Finland, but I seriously doubt he is a majority shareholder of the German-based company. I might be wrong on that, but I would be very surprised if that was the truth

c.

 

[TexasBeth]

Raise em on the rock (and metal)! ; ) I've got a pair of metalhead daughters both who love prog/power having been exposed to all forms of music with a lot of metal influence in their lives. I've met a lot of folks in my "of a certain" age bracket who bring their now becoming of-age kids to shows. My younger 12 year old can't stand that she can't come out yet.

 

[Diabolik]

There are some great points on shows and low turnouts....I think lots of times it isnt because of the bands itself or the economy. I think that the older folks who have families it is harder for them to just not be home with the kids and stuff to race off to a show. Or the people who work 9 to 5 or earlier and cant be out all night at a show ever other week. Then you have people like me who work nights and if a show is on a mon - fri....I have to take a vacation day to go so I am very selective with my weekday shows. Plus there are people who dont want to sit through 5 to 6 bands at a show. It is a huge trend in the Chicagoland area to book a zillion opening acts. This is a huge turnoff for me to go to a show. Sure it is just my opinion but I know others also share it. I miss the days of a 2 or 3 band show. I would almost rather pay a little more to have 2 or 3 bands to hold cover cost of not bringing in local acts freinds and have the show shorter or less filled with filler.

There is a DVD label called Criterion who are doing something very smart....I mentioned it in an earlier post actually about lowering prices. Most of thier DVD's cost around 30 to 50 bucks. They specialize in classic and important cinema. They go all out with the best quality and stuff. They started a smaller imprint label a year ago selling movie only DVD's...no extras that you would usually get on thier stuff. These are 20 bucks or lower...cant remember. I would love to see labels do this with new acts. I would risk paying 9 bucks or 10 on a band that sounds interesting than not trying at all to save 16 bucks. I listen to lots of samples lots of times but if I am at the CD store...there isnt a way to listen to it and most of the time the store only has 1 or 2 copies so I have to gamble lots of time. I think having a smaller imprint label would be a great way to get new acts stuff out there. No fancy booklets or anything...if the CD sells well...re-release a deluxe set with bigger booklet and a dvd or extra tracks.

 

[MEGALOUD]

T

There is a DVD label called Criterion who are doing something very smart....I mentioned it in an earlier post actually about lowering prices. Most of thier DVD's cost around 30 to 50 bucks. They specialize in classic and important cinema. They go all out with the best quality and stuff. They started a smaller imprint label a year ago selling movie only DVD's...no extras that you would usually get on thier stuff. These are 20 bucks or lower...cant remember. I would love to see labels do this with new acts. I would risk paying 9 bucks or 10 on a band that sounds interesting than not trying at all to save 16 bucks. I listen to lots of samples lots of times but if I am at the CD store...there isnt a way to listen to it and most of the time the store only has 1 or 2 copies so I have to gamble lots of time. I think having a smaller imprint label would be a great way to get new acts stuff out there. No fancy booklets or anything...if the CD sells well...re-release a deluxe set with bigger booklet and a dvd or extra tracks.

YES Time seems to have become somewhat squashed with all that's going on these days in my life anyone else seem to feel it's hard to get everything in ?

YES also to LESS stuff in the package, this makes way more sense than MORE stuff in the package in the beginning, more stuff in the package would make more sense when a solid fan base is secured for new bands and the band or label could print up a limited amount and be guaranteed these would blow out at a set but reasonable price.

The more I think about this, the more I'm thinking the label may need to go this way in the future... (with new bands, we could gradually bring up the art work in the packages based on how many the last album did in sales)

 

[Wyvern]

What do music fans want from the bands? The Labels? The Promoters?

a) good music, quality. Is not necessary to fill up a 80 min CD just for the sake of technology availability, I prefer less time and more meat.

b) Good distribution! Damn it, it's so hard and/or expensive to get the CDs no wonder illegal downloading is polluting everything. I don't mind to pay $16 for an album, I'm a collector, I have paid more than that for OOP stuff, but is irritating when an album cmoes out in Japan or Europe and is nor available this side of the pond for months or more. And since international Postal services are not reliable, buying straight from the band specially in Euros is also out of my league.

c) Give bands a shot. Talk to the target audience, know you market, and take some risks. People want some music, but seems the bands are never going to play here, there, anywhere near you. And touring is what makes money for the band not selling CDs, we all now that.

 

[Taliwakker]

I think having a smaller imprint label would be a great way to get new acts stuff out there. No fancy booklets or anything...if the CD sells well...re-release a deluxe set with bigger booklet and a dvd or extra tracks.

Kind of in the same ballpark.....I was thinking the other day that labels could release maybe 3 artists cds in the one package...like how you can but dvds which contain 3 or 5 similar movies. Limited artwork....maybe in a dvd case. Quite a few indie bands release joint eps...so it would be along this line but with label control.

 

[J-Man]

You mean the big merch company that has existed for 20 years now?
Hmmm, Jukka might be in charge of EMP Finland, but I seriously doubt he is a majority shareholder of the German-based company. I might be wrong on that, but I would be very surprised if that was the truth

c.

Your right, my bad, he is involved with the EMP unit in Finland.

 

[lady_space]

Kind of in the same ballpark.....I was thinking the other day that labels could release maybe 3 artists cds in the one package...like how you can but dvds which contain 3 or 5 similar movies. Limited artwork....maybe in a dvd case. Quite a few indie bands release joint eps...so it would be along this line but with label control.

Hmmm... I kind of like this idea... but to take it in a little different direction: what about having like a "tour sampler"? Like a little concert tour on one disc, with a few songs from each band. Not sure but I seem to remember hearing something like this at some time... of course, this would probably mean they'd have to be labelmates (?).

Anyway, I think I personally would be more likely to go ahead and pick something up like that, especially if I hadn't heard much of or was lukewarm on one or two bands liked a third. I may be the exception, but I don't buy so many CDs these days--I am more likely to go to a show where I am not crazy about the bands than I am to pick up a disc. but if I heard something I liked at said show and could get a sort of 'sampler' CD for $10 or something... hmmm... Anyway, not sure what the logistics would be, but interesting thoughts.

Shaye

 

[modernwizardry]

What do I want from bands?

Sincerity

What do I want from labels?

A full length album for $10 or less. The indie punk label Asian Man Records sells pretty much all CDs/Vinyl for $8/$10 shipped. If they can do it, I expect others to as well. If you can't, maybe you are spending too much money on something.

What do I want from promoters?

Well planned events.

 

[grogg]

but sadly, you are correct when you say the 30-50 year olds just aren't coming out like they used too. Their tastes have softened unlike mine :zombie:

I'm closer to 50 than 30 and my music interests are getting heavier, not softer. But like Sir Exar mentioned, with kids (I have 4 teens and 1 granddaughter) plus no one playing in boomfuck South Carolina, it's hard to get to shows unless its a road trip to Charlotte or Atlanta. The most I can do right now is buy a few shirts, a few CD's money permitting, and budget for PP each year.

Wish I had more time and money to spend with so many excellent metal bands out there but economics rule the day for me.

As far as what do we want? Music is so personal.....one person on the forum hates this band while the other one loves them. For me, it just has to strike me and first impressions are the most important. If I hear a good tune on myspace I may dig deeper and ultimately buy the CD but you have to put your best foot forward right off the bat where most people are getting their first taste or you may not get a second chance.

 

[Stingray11214]

Your right, my bad, he is involved with the EMP unit in Finland.

Jukka is also the CEO of Scene Nation Oy, which is Nightwish's corporate arm, and the site MoreMusic.Fi, which is Nightwish's all-music store.

 

[J-Man]

Jukka is also the CEO of Scene Nation Oy, which is Nightwish's corporate arm, and the site MoreMusic.Fi, which is Nightwish's all-music store.

Yea, i forgot those. He is really the business end of Nightwish, as Tuomas is the music.

 

[dcowboys311]

A full length album for $10 or less. The indie punk label Asian Man Records sells pretty much all CDs/Vinyl for $8/$10 shipped. If they can do it, I expect others to as well. If you can't, maybe you are spending too much money on something.

A lot of hardcore/punk labels have pricing similar to this. However, most of those artists don't do the type of touring metal bands do -- they do DIY touring. No buyons, contracts, guarantees, etc. That's why you see a lot more "combined" shows than in the metal scene. That is, if two tours are hitting the same area at the same time, they'll often combine and have a bigger show for the same price. I've seen it happen plenty of times. Even bigger bands jump on shows. I know Converge jumped on a DIY show a few weeks ago after their set on the Mastodon/Dethklok tour to do a surprise set.

Most of those shows are run and funded by the scene, though. The venue in Atlanta that has most of the hardcore/punk shows is actually a warehouse, and a few people live in it. Some metal bands come through there, but it's rarely anyone signed to a label. Just underground bands doing DIY touring. That's a big reason why their albums are cheaper. Also, many of those labels are run by people simply doing it for the love of the music and losing money, but simply doing it because they love the bands they're working with. Now I'm not saying that metal label owners don't love the music...it's just a different ethic. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

They also don't have to deal with finding distribution, since it's just about all through word of mouth. I've found that people in the hardcore/punk scene are more likely to purchase merch than most metalheads I know my age, but a lot of that has to do with there being a "collector's" thing going on. That's why you have people collecting every color of a vinyl, every color of a particular shirt, etc. But all of this contributes to lower cost albums.

Edit: Looking at Asian Man's site, it looks like the have a whole lot of folk-punk artists. Of course those are going to be cheap. Those bands tour in basements, house shows, non-profit centers, etc and are generally anti-everything.

 

[SkiBumMSP]

Skibum I think we agree in principle, esp. on the point that you above all look for quality bands first... but you may wish to consider the concept that you do in fact require them to hang with you etc., to take your appreciation of them to the next level. As for them being exhausted after shows etc., I didn't mean that happens all the time, but it does happen alot. The road is no easy task so to speak. But yeah, there are many bands who love to chill out with fans and have a few drinks after the gig.

I guess to me, that is just simple human nature. Are you more likely to go out of your way to help/support somebody whom you've become friends with vs just some regular joe? That does not mean that I won't support bands that I've never met in person. Just tonight, I went up to Jaxx to go see Oblivion Sun, a local prog outfit, which is actually a friend of a friend, as well as getting to see Steve Morse play - somebody that I've never seen in person before (but turned out to be really cool and, yes, even he came out after the show to hang with the fans and take autographs!)

 

[SkiBumMSP]

Actually, even before the internet, labels were giving away (or selling cheap) samplers of at least their up and coming bands... (I still have Century Media, Sensory etc. label samplers from 10-15 years ago) and even when there were no CDs, vinyl label samplers were around, at least at the cool used/indy record shops. But yeah, now is the best time to check out new music, with nearly all bands and/or labels putting album track samples online, or samples available on Amazon etc.

Now that you mention it, I do remember seeing those. However, getting/obtaining those was not always convenient, especially when I used to live out in the middle of bumfuck nowhere Pennsylvania, where the closest record store was some 12 miles away.

Now, here in Fredericksburg, VA - when I first moved to the area some 16 years ago, there used to be FOUR record stores in the area. The shopping mall had THREE of them, along with a little mom-n-pop one downtown (Blue Dog Records). Now, there are NONE! I now have to go to places like Best Buy if I want to buy CDs locally.

With the advent of the internet and digital downloads, it just make is so much more easier and more convenient to find and listen to samples of music. I've ended up buying a lot more music than I used to as result of it, as it made it much more easier to discover new bands.

 

[SkiBumMSP]

Labels play a roll in the food chain, until bands are wanting or able to handle the distribution and marketing angles themselves, this will always be the case, it's a symbiotic relationship that benefits both. Times are a changing, I've been a musician marketing his own stuff for the last 19 years but with the help of several territorial licensing deals around the world as large as EMI, it just simply can't all be done by one entity, there is a never ending supply of options and areas to be marketed and distributed too in order to get the music out there. I do this because I love the music and I'm friends with many people in this nitch of music and likely because some people seek me out because they've seen my work / both artist and label. Perhaps you were talking about the major labels, I'm not sure, but I'm certainly NOT in it for the money or I would have moved on to a different genre of music long ago.

Yes, I am well aware of the role the labels play. That statement was in response in that it is wishful thinking today if any artist or label thinks the general populace is going to change their perception about music buying. The major labels and the RIAA certainly were not helping matters by trying to strangle everything with draconian DRM as well as lawsuits, in addition to trying to force legislation through congress that makes it a worse crime to "steal" a song than if you just bumped somebody off. Not only that, they were trying to force equipment manufacturers to also include draconian measures to "protect" their precious music. No wonder the general populace is getting so turned off and take on a "if you are going to screw us, than we will screw you" mentality and just download the music off the 'net without paying for it. Also, it certainly don't help either that a lot of mainstream releases usually do contain only the one or two decent tracks (typically the ones heard on the radio) and the rest is just pure garbage to fill out an album to satisfy a record contract. No wonder things like iTunes, where people can now just pick-n-choose to buy and download the couple of tracks they are interested in, has gotten so popular.

Does any of this justify people to go and download music without paying for it? No! Not at all, but that is the type of perception that artists and labels are going to have to overcome if they hope to turn anywhere close to the kind of profits they were making in the past. Also, as I have already mentioned, I do wonder if the price of music, due to the current market forces, is actually going for what it may actually be worth, instead of what the labels (especially the major labels) were hoping to charge.

With all of that said, I think it is more important than ever that these bands and labels produce QUALITY music that is actually WORTH PAYING FOR. That is one of the main reasons why I primarily listen to prog/power metal, as that is where I am finding much of this quality. Thankfully, you are one of those rare labels that do care about quality music. As you well know, I've dropped plenty of coin on CDs at your table during ProgPowerUSA as well as the occasional online order. Of the dozens of CDs that I've bought off of you, I've yet to get a dud. There are some that I like better than others, but at least everything I got off of you have been well worth the money I've spent and I do continue spin nearly all of it from time to time.