What does Blackguard do when not touring? (aka the thread that won't die)

[AeonicSlumber]

You admitted you haven't read the whole thread, so allow me to explain.

No. I admitted I'm not going to comb through the thread just to quote you a million times (gonna have to go back on that though now). I never said I haven't read the thread. How does that even make sense? I'm on page like 2 and 3 of the thread??? Wut?

*hands you a shovel*

I simply brought up bands like Atlantean Kodex as a band that has generated a lot of buzz in the underground community based on their music, and not from being on tour after tour after tour. There is demand for them, based solely on their musical ability. I never specifically stated that I have proof that they would outsell Blackguard. Just saying that they are getting their name out there based on their ability. Claus made a statement that these days you HAVE to get out and tour relentlessly to get your name out there. Sure, it does help. I was just pointing out there are plenty of bands creating a buzz who rarely tour.

No, you said

Bet this thread alone will get more people checking out Atlantean Kodex tonight than Blackguard will get playing in front of whoever they are opening for tonight.

So yeah, you were so confident that the power of their music would generate success for the band moreso than Blackguard's touring, that you'd bet money on it.

*hands you another shovel*

And completely unrelated, I find it hilarious when folks like yourself write off bands I recommend, saying things like, "Kodex who"? Many of the same people who used to make the same comments about Tyr and While Heaven Wept.

I also said in this very thread that I actually dig that band and could totally get behind them. They just have a really stupid name so I couldn't remember it. Um I also was a fan of Tyr before they toured the US for the first time.

*hands you another shovel*

Keep digging dude. I guess you're never gonna stop.

 

[Jasonic]

Just one more thing I want to say....

I know a lots been said and disagreed upon in this thread.

For the record, I truly have ZERO issue with ANYONE on this forum.
Certainly many people who I will never see eye to eye on regarding many issues, but how boring would this forum be if we all agreed on everything.

I take it with a grain of salt that people interpret postings in their own way, and make out of it what they will.

In the end I keep coming to this forum because it is full of many people who are passionate about the music they love. Period.

So, rock out with your cock out, doom out with your tomb out, prog out with your frog out, power out with your flower out, or whatever rocks your boat!

 

[skyrefuge]

I just feel they tour a little too much, which leads them to being "that band..."

Beyond the fact that you, Bob, and Jason make a bunch of posts about it whenever such "overexposed" bands are announced on a new tour, are there actually any negative consequences for them of being "that band"?

If you're a headliner, a band actually getting paid (rather than paying), and have limited further growth-potential for your audience, then I can understand being concerned about "overexposure". You would like to maximize your net-income-per-show, and since touring has costs, it's better to play twice for your 1000 fans in a city and have them all come to both shows than it is to play 4 times and have only half come to each show.

But as an opener, who is essentially paying for ad space? Maximum exposure is what they want. Sure, it might annoy *you* (though I'm not sure why since openers are easily avoided), and it might not be financially wise for them to spend that much on "advertising", but how does simply being "that band" actually hurt them?

Neil

 

[nomisofsiman]

Again, and you insult MY comprehension? I never wrote anywhere that you aren't entitled to your opinion. What I did say though, is that you aren't entitled to present your opinion as objective fact. You clearly DON'T know what "overexposure" is, and as skyrefuge pointed out -- how could you if you never even saw Blackguard live? How would you know? Just because you go on forums and message boards? Since when was THAT a barometer for success? The fact you're even arguing that is baffling. You COULD tell Steve Jobs that you think iPods cannot sell well because you hate iTunes, but you'd be flat-out wrong. So yes, this is a black and white discussion.

Just when this thread started to get normal again, you go off again. Dude, again, chill out. You're gonna have a heart attack some day if you keep acting like this. I'm not gonna argue on most of that because quite frankly this is getting old.

Anyways, it didn't seem to me that Jasonic made his opinions as fact. I've seen people who do and it didn't seem that way. I could be wrong, but regardless it seems you don't understand how boards work. In general, most people tend to say stuff that is their opinion, that's the point. They don't have to say "In my opinion..." before every comment. Secondly, seeing Blackguard live does not = being able to see if they're overexposed. It's called finding out about tours online and oftentimes, a lot of metal fans see Blackguard on the bill. And I'm sorry but if I've heard a number of people say "Them again?" I'm sorry they are officially overexposed to some extent. If it wasn't for other people on this board and through conversations that have said this not just about BG but Into Eternity, Swashbuckle, etc. I wouldn't have this opinion of them being overexposed. Like I said in my previous post, this is not saying that BG shouldn't tour and even that they shouldn't tour extensively, all people on here are saying is that they tour a little too much is all.

 

[Jasonic]

*hands you a shovel*

Those comments were totally in jest in response to how many people had checked out Atlantean Kodex as a result of this thread.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Same here, though I still like Strato.
I think they redeemed themselves nicely with Polaris.
Definitely made up for Elements I through the S/T.

Well, maybe some day we can throw back a few beers, and jam through the Helloween discography!

Yeah I'd be down. To be totally honest, I'm more than likely going to hit the fest up next September as a graduation gift to myself. Have to see Sanctuary and Arcturus and Dream Evil.*

* that is unless Glenn won't let me in

 

[Jasonic]

Beyond the fact that you, Bob, and Jason make a bunch of posts about it whenever such "overexposed" bands are announced on a new tour, are there actually any negative consequences for them of being "that band"?

Absolutely Neil!

Do you know how many times I have skipped Warbringer simply because my first thought when comparing their shows to others is, "Eh, they tour all the time, they will be back"

Secondly, if you don't break to the next level, you are always that forever "opening" band.

Sure, there are MANY benefits, primarily being that you gain true fans each and every night.

Everyone is acting like Bob, Simon, and myself are the only people who have the "oh its them again" response when touring lineups are announced which feature the bands mentioned in this thread thus far.

 

[Jasonic]

Yeah I'd be down. To be totally honest, I'm more than likely going to hit the fest up next September as a graduation gift to myself. Have to see Sanctuary and Arcturus and Dream Evil.

I would love to come to PP some year, regardless of who plays.
Just hasn't ever been a realistic thing for me, unfortunately.
Maybe and hopefully some day.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Beyond the fact that you, Bob, and Jason make a bunch of posts about it whenever such "overexposed" bands are announced on a new tour, are there actually any negative consequences for them of being "that band"?

If you're a headliner, a band actually getting paid (rather than paying), and have limited further growth-potential for your audience, then I can understand being concerned about "overexposure". You would like to maximize your net-income-per-show, and since touring has costs, it's better to play twice for your 1000 fans in a city and have them all come to both shows than it is to play 4 times and have only half come to each show.

But as an opener, who is essentially paying for ad space? Maximum exposure is what they want. Sure, it might annoy *you* (though I'm not sure why since openers are easily avoided), and it might not be financially wise for them to spend that much on "advertising", but how does simply being "that band" actually hurt them?

Neil

I've sort of hinted at it before. Sometimes there are people that would go to a show and see an opener like BG and like them (but don't love them) and after seeing them they wouldn't mind picking up their disc. If this person continues to see them on frequent tours, he/she may end up getting sick of them and won't purchase said album. This doesn't apply to a lot of people mind you, but it has happened to me with some bands. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

Another thing. I don't do this, but I know a number of people who will avoid going to a show if said band is on the bill (since they've seen them way too many times or don't like them). I personally don't have this mindset, but I know it does happen. On top of that, it also can hurt because people that will go anyways will decide to come later and avoid their set, which means them playing to a smaller group.

Most of these things I will admit don't necessarily hurt them as much as hurt the headliner, but I do think people getting tired of seeing said band does in the end hurt the band. I think you're reading too much into my "overexposure" comment. I'm simply saying that it wouldn't hurt for them to be on a couple less tours per year or so. That's all.

Mostly this affects the average metal fan. Let's be honest as fans, we don't want to see the same opening bands on every tour. We want diversity.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Oh my. We're on page 10 already. This has to stop.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

I would love to come to PP some year, regardless of who plays.
Just hasn't ever been a realistic thing for me, unfortunately.
Maybe and hopefully some day.

Flying sucks. I just did it for the first time last Summer to California via the East Coast. Wasn't fun. I hear you.

 

[skyrefuge]

Do you know how many times I have skipped Warbringer simply because my first thought when comparing their shows to others is, "Eh, they tour all the time, they will be back"

And I ask again, how does that hurt them? You already have an opinion of them (and not a very high desire to see them), so they've apparently already reached you with their advertising. Since they almost surely aren't getting paid based on your attendance, how does your absence hurt them?

Secondly, if you don't break to the next level, you are always that forever "opening" band.

heh...that's a tautology, not an argument. In other news, if you don't dry off, you're going to be wet.

Everyone is acting like Bob, Simon, and myself are the only people who have the "oh its them again" response when touring lineups are announced which feature the bands mentioned in this thread thus far.

ok, this is a priceless example of your why I always doubt your estimates when you refer to "many" people. No, "everyone" isn't acting like that, it's pretty much just me, maybe with a slight implication from one or two other people. 1 /= Everyone! I know my awesomeness can make me seem omnipotent and omnipresent, but I'm still only one person! So similarly, perhaps a lot fewer people are bothered by overexposed-openers than you think.

Neil

 

[nomisofsiman]

So, rock out with your cock out, doom out with your tomb out, prog out with your frog out, power out with your flower out, or whatever rocks your boat!

Epic post.

 

[nomisofsiman]

ok, this is a priceless example of your why I always doubt your estimates when you refer to "many" people. No, "everyone" isn't acting like that, it's pretty much just me, maybe with a slight implication from one or two other people. 1 /= Everyone! I know my awesomeness can make me seem omnipotent and omnipresent, but I'm still only one person! So similarly, perhaps a lot fewer people are bothered by overexposed-openers than you think.

Neil

Check other threads about either Blackguard or tours with Blackguard. You'll see it's more than just us three. Again, it's not just this forum I've talked to others about this fact too. You can believe what you want to believe, but look at it this way: If there's already a number of people on this board who feel this way about BG or other similar overexposed bands, it's bound to exist elsewhere as well.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Cool, let's meet up for dinner beforehand @ the Bottom Lounge.
Bob will be there too.

Sounds good. Just pm me or whatever in terms of what time and such.

 

[Pate]

heh...that's a tautology, not an argument. In other news, if you don't dry off, you're going to be wet.

 

[Jasonic]

heh...that's a tautology, not an argument. In other news, if you don't dry off, you're going to be wet.

You read into that what you wanted to.

It goes further beyond that and you know it.

A constant opening band's sales could quickly dry up, earning them a spot on the list of a label's "Former Artist" list.

(IE - anyone remember BEYOND THE EMBRACE?)

 

[Palabra de Dios]

Fuck Beyond the Embrace.

 

[Palabra de Dios]

Oh I'm sorry, that was mean.

I don't enjoy Beyond the Embrace.

 

[General Zod]

(IE - anyone remember BEYOND THE EMBRACE?)

I do. Have both of their discs. Very cool guys. Anyone know what happened to them?