What High Grade Monitors should I get?

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

I've also worked on NS10's and Genelec 8030's + sub - will eventually get a pair of NS-10's, found the Genelecs to really be 'client pleasers,' as everything sound awesome on them regardless of the mix.

This is something I never understood. The Genelecs are extremely flat and don't sound overly "pleasing" to my ears at all. I could say maybe it's just the 8030's, but I've heard people say the same stuff about 8040's and 8050's every now and then, and I've listened to them all worked quite a bit on both the 8040's and 8050's :O

 

[gabriel g.]

SORRY SORRY SORRY
Everything I wrote about the P11 is WRONG!!!!!

I pulled out that protocoll about that blind-shootout and
everything I wrote about the P11 was about the ADAM S2.5!!!!!!!!!!!!

So sorry fragle!!!!
My mistake.

I dont edit all the posts, so ADAM S2.5=Shit (IMO) and P11=ask fragle
A7= I like them

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

One model I'd love to try out, too, is the Adam S3X-H. I stopped by a local studio that had just got them in, and the house engineer (who's word I absolutely trust after hearing his stuff and watching how he works) was really stoked about them. Didn't get a chance to listen to them, though :/

 

[Skaldir]

This is something I never understood. The Genelecs are extremely flat and don't sound overly "pleasing" to my ears at all.

+1
They are rather hard in the upper mids and can make guitars sounds a bit more nasty than they are.
So no real client pleasers imo

We have those PMC beasts at university
If you got 10k to spend you can look into them, Greg

They have the most accurate bass response I ever heard. Its almost too good for monitoring, because even the most washy bass sounds great on them.

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

The ones I compared them to were the Dynaudio BM5a's, Event ASP8's, Yamaha HS80's, and that ridiculous JBL room-correcting speaker set - basically what they have at Guitar Center and is around the same price/league as the A7's. A7's definitely won over all - clearer and fuller than the Dynaudios, more accurate and less hyped than the Events, richer and more detailed than the Yamahas, and the JBL's just sucked huge dick.

I've also worked on NS10's and Genelec 8030's + sub - will eventually get a pair of NS-10's, found the Genelecs to really be 'client pleasers,' as everything sound awesome on them regardless of the mix.

Oh god... tell me about it... I hate my BM5a's... practically no low-end, really weird upper-mid response, can't really explain it... there's just something weird, I hate the imaging on them... I swear to god I mixed better on my BX5a's....

I seriously dont get it, they get raved everywhere (BM5a's) but they just dont work for me... I hate them ;__; I did listen to A7s in a store and they sounded pretty good, although lacking a bit in the low-end area as well, but definitely heaps and bounds better than the bm5as

 

[vespiz]

We have Genelec 8040s in the studio and everything has to be a bit harsh sounding so that they'll translate.
Which makes mixing sessions rather tiresome.. There's always the danger that I'm making things too soft/smooth.
I'm keeping an eye out on some other alternatives to get at some point, but I'm afraid the next step would have to be
on the expensive side..

But I'm also not 100% sure about the acoustics.. There might be some slight comb filtering going on in the upper mids.
Acoustics is something that everyone thinking of buying new monitors should consider before anything else.

 

[rlcramer]

I bought a pair of Opal's recently (mostly from reviews I've read here - i.e. Ermz constant gushing ) and I have to agree - they really are the best monitor's that I've heard (and notice I didn't say "in their price range.") They are the best of anything that I've EVER heard. I used to mix on HS80m's and Genelec 8030a's. To me - the 8030's weren't the most fun to listen too, but they made my mixes sound good on other systems. The HS80's were a really fun speaker to listen to - hyped bass, slightly scooped mids, nice highs, but as a sole set of monitors, they wouldn't cut it for me. My mixes wound up to be too muddy in the low end, and just not "right" when I mixed solely on the hs80s.

I sold them both, and picked up a pair of Opals and set of Avantone mixcubes. Now I have the flat, tight, powerful, super high headroom of the Opals, with the shitty boombox style listening of the Mixcubes, and my mixes translate soooo much better with a lot less compensating. The only downside of the Opals, is that they REALLY bring out the deficiencies in your room. I knew my room was poorly trated before, but now it's REALLY apparent. Prepare to budget some cash for treatment if you haven't done so already. But aside from that, they really are a well designed, well made, and SUPER accurate speaker.

I wish I had more to say about them, but I don't. They simply deliver. Remember the first time you played through a cranked 5150, and you sat back and said "Why didn't I buy this amp 10 years ago?" That's exactly how I felt with the Opals. It was like I finally got a pair of montors that told me the truth...

They obviously aren't cheap - I had never spent more than $1500 on speakers before in my life. But they totally get the job done.

Bobby

 

[Max Morton]

In need of your advice, gentlemen.
It's more then four years since I'm mixing using Dynaudios BM5a. It took me more then a year to get used to them, but now I can easily mix using BM5a. My mixes sound fine on other systems, I can easily work and I'm not getting tired. I've got a properly treated room, suctom built monitor stands, bass traps, etc. My room size is 11x16.5 feet (quite small). My gear has overgrown BM5's. But as I said, I know them perfectly well, so the upgrade should be not "a little better pair", but "totally different league".

So, I'm planning to upgrade to KH O300 or Opals, or Adams. Read a lot about the Trident HG3 http://www.trident-audio.com/hg3.html. Also i've read lots of shit about Opals being muddy and translating bad. So, just reading random comments does not help

The most wise way would be listening and trying, but in my country it's absolutely impossible. I can get some Adams and Genelecs with moneyback, but no chance I can try O300's or Opals. Also, something prevents me from buying some better Dynaudios.

So, could you please share your opinions and characterise the differences between:
1)KH O300 vs Opals?
2)Some S3x adams vs KH O300?
3)Genelec 1032 vs KH O300?
4)Anyone heard these Tridents??

I'm seeking for the most transparent sounding ones. I'm also mixing at low volumes most of my time and find it a good way to get my mixes detailed and my ears healthy.

P.S:Funny thing is that i did not dig Adams A7 at all. I just loved my BM5a much better. I'm sure it's because I've spent years mixing on them.

 

[crillemannen]

In need of your advice, gentlemen.
It's more then four years since I'm mixing using Dynaudios BM5a. It took me more then a year to get used to them, but now I can easily mix using BM5a. My mixes sound fine on other systems, I can easily work and I'm not getting tired. I've got a properly treated room, suctom built monitor stands, bass traps, etc. My room size is 11x16.5 feet (quite small). My gear has overgrown BM5's. But as I said, I know them perfectly well, so the upgrade should be not "a little better pair", but "totally different league".

So, I'm planning to upgrade to KH O300 or Opals, or Adams. Read a lot about the Trident HG3 http://www.trident-audio.com/hg3.html. Also i've read lots of shit about Opals being muddy and translating bad. So, just reading random comments does not help

The most wise way would be listening and trying, but in my country it's absolutely impossible. I can get some Adams and Genelecs with moneyback, but no chance I can try O300's or Opals. Also, something prevents me from buying some better Dynaudios.

So, could you please share your opinions and characterise the differences between:
1)KH O300 vs Opals?
2)Some S3x adams vs KH O300?
3)Genelec 1032 vs KH O300?
4)Anyone heard these Tridents??

I'm seeking for the most transparent sounding ones. I'm also mixing at low volumes most of my time and find it a good way to get my mixes detailed and my ears healthy.

P.S:Funny thing is that i did not dig Adams A7 at all. I just loved my BM5a much better. I'm sure it's because I've spent years mixing on them.

If you seriously can afford K+H, ADAM S3x and Opals, demo all 3 of them. I dont you can go wrong with either one of them.

 

[Ermz]

So, I'm planning to upgrade to KH O300 or Opals, or Adams. Read a lot about the Trident HG3 http://www.trident-audio.com/hg3.html. Also i've read lots of shit about Opals being muddy and translating bad. So, just reading random comments does not help

So don't read random comments.

Define whose opinion you value and listen to them more intently than others. I've defined about 0.5% of the population here as those I trust, and anyone not within that demographic is either treated with the huge grain of salt or outright averted until it's proven that they can back up their opinions with results. People like to talk... a lot. So much so, in fact, that they don't even consider it a pre-requisite to know what it is they're talking about. Defining a trust category helps you get a more grounded perspective wherever you are.

People will seldom ever hold unanimous opinions on something as subjective as monitoring. You only have to look at some threads on GS to see this in action. Some of the comments flying around there border on lunacy - and it's like that in reality. For all 99% of useless opinions you get, you might get 1% from people who actually know what they're talking about. The rest is mired in subjectivity (eg. Opals being too scooped) and idiocy (eg. Opals being muddy).

So here is my opinion, take it or leave it:

Out of the monitors you've listed the O300s and Opals are the most neutral and transparent. They are both undeniably stellar achievements in speaker design, as attested to by the O300s' huge popularity in German broadcast and the Opals' quick rise to stardom and evisceration of just about all immediate rivals. The only way you can truly pick between them is to have a shoot-out. If that isn't possible for you, then you have to lay it out on paper.

-The O300s potentially sound a little more 'gentle'. The Opals have been called 'airy'. Whether that is actually true and not just a byproduct of an extremely low distortion tweeter (Event claim the lowest spec ever) is yet to be seen however.

-The O300s have a limiter that kicks in under loud monitoring situations. That means it's not for those who like to crank it up. Only way to increase headroom is to add the complimentary subs, which ramp up the price.

- Your ears will distort before the Opals do.

- The Opals have a slightly pronounced amp hiss. This bothers some more than others. It actually bothers me more than most, and I still champion these as the best nearfields I've ever heard. Take that as you will. If I gain enough of a following on this front, or more 'cred' in the industry I'd like to petition Peter to get this design aspect looked at and revamped if at all possible. Most of us will never use its insane headroom, but I doubt *any* of us would say 'no' to lower noise.

- In my experience the Rode/Event personnel have been nothing but stellar. It is not often that the CEO of a company contacts you on the back of some minor misgivings you have about your new purchase on Gearslutz and attempts to sort those out by sending you a flood of replacement speakers.

Since this has turned into way more of a rant than I intended, I might as well finish it off with the last thing I'd love to put out there about monitoring: NS-10s in studios are the same as Macs and ProTools. It no longer makes any sense, but they became the defacto standard for whatever reason/circumstance back in the day, and due to many engineers' familiarity with their sound they eventually became a staple of most professional facilities. They are not good monitors. It's important to grasp this simple concept. There is nothing good about them. If you need +18dB of 2k fired at your ears in order to hear what's going on in your mix then your main monitors have problems. I notice that many people use them with 1031As and that's cool.. because 1031s are fucking useless as monitors. They define 'client impressor'. Note that I'm not saying it's impossible to craft good mixes on them. Many guys still do it to this day, but it is not the 'only' way to work, nor is it intrinsically the wisest way to work. One of the NS-10s biggest popular champions, CLA, has recently bought himself a set of Barefoot MM27s. High-fidelity monitoring will eventually penetrate the pro market, it's only a matter of time, so be ahead of the wave and don't follow ancient, nonsensical trends.

Also, next time you're down at your local pro mastering house getting your record finished up... tell me how many times your ME will switch to NS-10s to 'monitor compatibility'. Better yet, tell me of a single serious professional ME who would even entertain using a set.

 

[crillemannen]

+ Ermz

Good post man!!!

 

[pipaguapique]

WOW...i just went to the Event's website...and boy...does that guy look confident about his monitor....hahaha

Im convinced just by listening to him that my studio is nothing without his monitors (THE BEST MONITOR IN THE F'ING UNIVERSE!!)

 

[Dalinkwent48@aim.com]

WOW...i just went to the Event's website...and boy...does that guy look confident about his monitor....hahaha

Im convinced just by listening to him that my studio is nothing without his monitors (THE BEST MONITOR IN THE F'ING UNIVERSE!!)

Well events do make really badass monitors lol

 

[dcb]

NS-10s in studios are the same as Macs and ProTools. It no longer makes any sense, but they became the defacto standard for whatever reason/circumstance back in the day, and due to many engineers' familiarity with their sound they eventually became a staple of most professional facilities. They are not good monitors.

i think you can never have enough options for evaluating a mix. no monitor onthis planet is any worth (good) if you dont know it in and out.
in my humble opinion you really have to fight to make a mix sound great on ns10s, you cant rely on "fatness", its really down to shaping the mids then.
for pop or radio rock this is still a no1 choice, but on most interviews i hear
the top 10 guys (including CLA) mostly mix on small consumer systems to
see how the whole thing will translate into the real world.
and thats probably the most important step. i think you really cant go wrong with ns 10s but ermz is right to say : they are no must!.

but they will make you work hard for a great mix (i love that ;-).
i hate those hifi monitors, that make everythingsound great

greg. - nice choice with the opals! you wont regret it! except for their heavy weight ;-)

btw. : anyone ever tried out some high end monitors in big music stores?
its impossible to say which ones great / bad. those guys just turn up more the monitors they wanna sell to you (louder = bettererer) + your fighting with worst room acoustics ever ;-)

 

[lolzgreg]

Thankfully, my entire mixing region is surrounded by bass traps, and I plan on stuffing the whole corner with 'em.

I can't wait till I have the money to buy these puppies.

 

[Max Morton]

Ermz: Thanks. That's a great answer, very useful. I do totally agree about ns10, protools and macs, btw. I hate religion in the soundengineering. The details you gave me about O300 and Opals are exactly of the desired character - both monitors are great and the subtle nuances may lead me to decision.
As I said, there's no way to audition most of the hi-grade monitors here in Ukraine. I can listen stuff in other studios (I even traveled to other cities to do that), but did does not give me too much understanding.

Still obsessed by KH's

 

[MetalSound]

i think you can never have enough options for evaluating a mix. no monitor onthis planet is any worth (good) if you dont know it in and out.

that´s it.

if you think your mixes translate very well to the outside world and you know your monitors why should buy a new pair? more important than any brand name in the world is if you can work with them and if you know how they sound. even a shitty pair of hifi speakers can lead you to good mixes if you know how they sound.
i always check my mixes on an old hifi system. not because it sounds good but i have known this system for nearly 20 years. although it´s not part of my studio it´s the first thing i would instantly look for and buy another one if it would break up.