What is art and what is not.
- Thread starter Badbird
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Death Aflame
voice of dissent
- Feb 1, 2004
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That stat, on its face, is absurd. First of all, what does it mean to be 'good at one's job'? Further, who decides/comes up with the criteria upon which such a judgement rests?
I would be interested in reading the source/study that documented that statistic and how they came to that conclusion.
derek
Grey Eminence
Like most statistics in my head, the source I garnered them from is long forgotten.
I would suggest that it's not as absurd as you'd have it, though. Based simply on my own observations, a substantial percentage of people I've worked with were inept in some fashion.
In that respect, I've decided what it means to be "good" at one's job, and I think I'm perhaps being overly fair in the criteria.
I would suggest that it's not as absurd as you'd have it, though. Based simply on my own observations, a substantial percentage of people I've worked with were inept in some fashion.
In that respect, I've decided what it means to be "good" at one's job, and I think I'm perhaps being overly fair in the criteria.
Dak
mentat
Most people will only be as good at something as they need to be to get what they want out of it. So if the bar is set low, that is as far as they will go.
Resonator
Member
- Apr 16, 2007
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I think the new Lady Gaga (Bad Romance) is awesome. I also happen to have a new found love/hate relationship with Rhianna for some of her newest stuff. Jay-Z did a bit with her too, thought that was somethin out of a disturbed video. Oh, the video's for such:
GET INVOLVED IN YOUR CULTURE CHILDREN. INHERITANCE AWAITS.
GET INVOLVED IN YOUR CULTURE CHILDREN. INHERITANCE AWAITS.
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Rhianna and Jay-Z! I have a very hard time when someone calls them artists when those ppl are entertainers. Artist are creative enough to think of more words to use in their songs besides moaning over shit they cant think of (Rhianna) or just reapeating the same goddamn words over again (Jay-Z). And with Lady Gaga.... creative maybe? She just reminds me of Manson. Shes the closest thing to "art" i guess when it came to those 3.
But I guess "Art" is whatever that person thinks it is. Its just unfortunet that if a wide mass say its art then thats what the majority have to agree with.
Just look at Melbourne
uke:
Rough Divide
Sgt Major DickYouDown
Honestly its a matter of opinion really, what may be art to someone may not be to someone else, to me my art is where my heart is, but that's just me.
thats a bit of a upside down statement when typically the point questioned would be if it went far enough.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I do believe that art requires work. I don't believe that random scribblings by a four-year-old are art. I don't believe that Transformers is art. I believe that art can be whatever you want it to be, but only if the proper meaning and analytical thought is attributed to it. Edgar Allen Poe's "The Raven" was likely not considered art (or at least "High Art") by many or any when it was first published (other than Edgar himself); but now we regard it as one of the quintessential American poems. It has gained that prestige over time, as more scholars and observers have attributed their interpretations and thoughts to it.
That said, it appears as though something like Transformers or Hannah Montana could become art over a period of time; but I personally refuse to accept this.
If someone, however, applies an interesting theory to something, regardless of its popular nature, it could potentially be accepted as art. I just think it's unlikely that Michael Bay has the capacity to sit down and compose a treatise on why his movies are high art. Peter Bruegel, however, could likely explain in a convincing manner why Landscape with the Fall of Icarus is a work of art. Therefore, I believe that the artist also must have a strong influence on the outcome of his/her work (even Poe wrote an essay on the poetic nature of "The Raven").
That said, it appears as though something like Transformers or Hannah Montana could become art over a period of time; but I personally refuse to accept this.
If someone, however, applies an interesting theory to something, regardless of its popular nature, it could potentially be accepted as art. I just think it's unlikely that Michael Bay has the capacity to sit down and compose a treatise on why his movies are high art. Peter Bruegel, however, could likely explain in a convincing manner why Landscape with the Fall of Icarus is a work of art. Therefore, I believe that the artist also must have a strong influence on the outcome of his/her work (even Poe wrote an essay on the poetic nature of "The Raven").
Dak
mentat
Those 3 artists are the current most obvious symbols of all that is wrong with American pop culture.
The Raven horrified me when I was first presented with it, I was quite young but I no longer remember how old I was. Im suspecting 7th grade English does that sound about right ? OR could it have been earlier ? I just read it again finally, a curious piece of work
Einherjar86
Active Member
It really is an amazing poem. The sad thing is that, even today, many scholars (mostly those who prefer the more elegant British lit'ri'cha) consider Poe's work to be "entertainment magazine-esque" material. They write him off as one of those derivative American writers.
It's a damn shame, because his poetry is some of the most beautiful and haunting to ever be composed. When I studied abroad in Cambridge my Shakespeare professor actually confessed (or professed, I suppose) that he had never read any Poe. We (a class of Americans) were shocked. Most students are introduced to him (as you were razor) in middle school. If not that early then definitely in high school.
Well there is a sense of elementary to its rhyme but I get the feeling it was intentionally done and there is quite a bit of other clever word play in there. I also love reading stuff that uses words that have become obsolete today.
Do you have another Poe recommendation ?
The time period of my life that I heard this and my reaction is most curious to me. I dont associate my reaction to any ties to my mothers death which is when I was 12 and did change my "humor" about such things. This is what makes me think it was earlier, I did have a older sister and friends older brothers so this is another possibility.
Do you have another Poe recommendation ?
The time period of my life that I heard this and my reaction is most curious to me. I dont associate my reaction to any ties to my mothers death which is when I was 12 and did change my "humor" about such things. This is what makes me think it was earlier, I did have a older sister and friends older brothers so this is another possibility.
Before making a claim on whether something is art or not, the definition of "art" itself should be established.
It is hardly likely that everybody in this forum has the same definition of "art". If the definition of art is not agreed upon by two parties making claims, then any disagreement on what is art, and what is not art, may be simply due to a disagreement in the definition of art.
For me, art has to to with expression of intellect and emotion, through the use of both intellect and emotion. Thus, art should generally be very personal, and every person should have their own "style". A good "artist" will pursue a balance in intellect and emotion in their work, meeting and overcoming struggles along the way.
Another thought: To what extent should art be produced with the consideration of the audience?
For me, the audience is of very little significance for art, as it based on personal expression.
It is hardly likely that everybody in this forum has the same definition of "art". If the definition of art is not agreed upon by two parties making claims, then any disagreement on what is art, and what is not art, may be simply due to a disagreement in the definition of art.
For me, art has to to with expression of intellect and emotion, through the use of both intellect and emotion. Thus, art should generally be very personal, and every person should have their own "style". A good "artist" will pursue a balance in intellect and emotion in their work, meeting and overcoming struggles along the way.
Another thought: To what extent should art be produced with the consideration of the audience?
For me, the audience is of very little significance for art, as it based on personal expression.
Einherjar86
Active Member
He wrote an essay in which he discussed the poetic nature of the poem and reasons for choosing the meter and rhyme scheme. He put a lot of thought into it.
I'd also recommend (to anyone interested in Poe) the following poems:
"Annabel Lee"
"The Bells"
"Ulalume"
I own a complete collection of his poems, essays and short stories; but those are three of my favorite poems.
Interesting, I must admit I struggled with some of those words, not looking them up so still dont know completely what I was reading.
He definantly does use a science or even math in his compositions and Im really not sure how I feel about that. I think I prefer that which at least appears to flow naturally from whomever is writting it, than writtin in a particular manor as course of experimentation or purposely intentional.
