What Is To Be Done

[speed]

I’ve spent a great deal of time arguing a great number of things related to, what I suppose I’d call social philosophy (social as in related to the realm of the world and life, not pure ideas). I’ve engaged in countless debates about politics, religion, power, and so on and so forth. And I think I’ve come to some conclusions. These include a Foucault-ian sense of repression of the individual to the discipline and power of bureaucracy and corporatism (also found in our educational institutions); the present orgy of materialism and consumerism—the fall and total decline of art and culture, and the cruel façade of modern culture; the problems with theories or answers to correct this decline (i.e. nationalism and other fun things); thus, the Wittgenstein-esque critique of all these philosophical theories—in which, questions that are really not questions, are answered, or problems that are not problems, are answered (the nonsense of it all). And you know, after all of this, I’m continually haunted by all this accumulated knowledge—just what is to be done with it?

What is to be done? We know all of our problems, and most of us can agree on the major issues, yet the solutions…well, perhaps it’s due to the philosophical or intellectual bent of persons involved in such a debate. As Bertrand Russell famously said, “The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.” Are we content to continue to let the businessmen, lawyers, and scientists create the future? I, for one, think most reasonably intelligent people are (including me). Despite a yearning for change (and my own classical—as in ancient classical bent) or action based on many of these great ideas, I am full of doubts and pessimism of the efficacy of any solution. But I am not a philosopher.

I ask, what is to be done?

 

[speed]

The answer is obvious.

Impersonate an imagined Nietzsche, fill the internet with bombastic claims on history, anthropology, politics, etc., adopt a idealized pagan handle, ignore anything after the 19th century... this is the way to the truth and the revolution!

Hey, you deleted an excellent post!

 

[Justin S.]

Well, I deleted that (it wasn't helpful and I've taken the jab before), and you had to go and quote it!

So, I'm forced to reply honestly, but I don't have a tidy answer for you, unlike those brave, pagan hearted souls who I'm sure will show up and inform.

p.s. black metal is important, regardless of most of its fanbase.

 

[Blowtus]

When thinking about 'what can be done' I've tried to work out just what makes folk like us the way we are - interested in broad thought and understanding, to put it... broadly. For myself, I 'think' the biggest difference (to some 'average') is a very high level of self esteem, which I think lets me assess matters without as much influence from some sort of of ego development drive. Less need / desire to fit in with society to live a happy life. Sometimes very much the opposite, if society makes no sense in that regard.

Is it realistic to think that we can improve matters such that there are more 'of us'? Or do you think the 'us' is always just going to be one end of a particular bell curve, and should focus on changing situations rather than people? I often wonder how much could be achieved with improved education... starting with parents perhaps.

 

[OldScratch]

I’ve spent a great deal of time arguing a great number of things related to, what I suppose I’d call social philosophy (social as in related to the realm of the world and life, not pure ideas). I’ve engaged in countless debates about politics, religion, power, and so on and so forth. And I think I’ve come to some conclusions. These include a Foucault-ian sense of repression of the individual to the discipline and power of bureaucracy and corporatism (also found in our educational institutions); the present orgy of materialism and consumerism—the fall and total decline of art and culture, and the cruel façade of modern culture; the problems with theories or answers to correct this decline (i.e. nationalism and other fun things); thus, the Wittgenstein-esque critique of all these philosophical theories—in which, questions that are really not questions, are answered, or problems that are not problems, are answered (the nonsense of it all). And you know, after all of this, I’m continually haunted by all this accumulated knowledge—just what is to be done with it?

What is to be done? We know all of our problems, and most of us can agree on the major issues, yet the solutions…well, perhaps it’s due to the philosophical or intellectual bent of persons involved in such a debate. As Bertrand Russell famously said, “The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.” Are we content to continue to let the businessmen, lawyers, and scientists create the future? I, for one, think most reasonably intelligent people are (including me). Despite a yearning for change (and my own classical—as in ancient classical bent) or action based on many of these great ideas, I am full of doubts and pessimism of the efficacy of any solution. But I am not a philosopher.

I ask, what is to be done?

Actually, this is a question I have wanted to ask for some time here, but couldn't find quite how to frame it. Nevertheless, sarcastic responses notwithstanding, it is an overdue and important query. Criticism of everything from western culture in toto, to wide-spread materialism, religion, work, egalitarian utopianism, political ideologies and indeed philosophies fly pretty fast and free here. Solutions and visions for realistic, large scale improvement are notably less abundant.
We all seem to know(in our own assessment)what is wrong - but few seem in agreement on how to make it right, if we even have such lofty ideas at all. We may have small scale game-plans, or suggestions for how to lessen certain broader behavioral influences, spiritual influences, etc. But what is to be done to make any of these ideas workable or even palatable to the broader "masses," for without the support of the people, I don't see cultural change going very far.

I think in the general population, you would find that very few people agree with many of the stronger criticisms raised here regularly.
I rarely if ever encounter people with concerns along the lines of those raised in this forum - no matter what they are. The very things that vex many of us, are the same things many in the general population live for!

Here in a land where people seem more concerned with who fathered dimwitted strumpet Anna Nicole Smith's baby than why their nation is embroiled in a protracted civil-war in a country halfway across the globe, that was no threat to them in the first place...it's tough not be a bit of a defeatist regarding any meaningful change in attitudes. It's altogether depressing really.

 

[Crucified Spartacus]

part of the problem as i see it is the tendency to look for what is to be done in your mind, rather then discovering it through action. in other words, i think people should be more inclined towards praxis, letting action influence theoretical positions/strategies and vice versa. too many people are doing absolutely nothing and hence fall into defeatist traps of despair, finding it more comfortable to discuss ideas that won't be challenged through putting them in practice. now this still leaves open the issue of what actions to take, but that's all about what you value. for the nazistically inclined, start The Party, gather the base, take over power, and let the fun begin. for me i lean towards this:

The Technological Infrastructure is a Target by Kevin Tucker

The possibilities of living wild and free lie in the weaknesses of the state.(10) I recognize that the dis-ease of Capital has infected minds so much that they would rather die with it than give up its material comforts. Thus is the nature of the totality of civilized thought. Many will hold dearly to this system until they recognize that other ways of life are possible, the revolutionary/insurrectionary urge should point towards this potential.
The over-riding question is whether it will take a conscious revolution or the precise acts of small groups and individuals to force this empire down. The bulk of the U.S. won’t be willing to question their domestication until shit gets so bad that they don’t have any other option. My interests are in trying to draw a string between the problems that we each face and show the collective origin of those problems in the hopes that people will wake up to the reality that we are being forced to face.
Looking at the likeliness of collapse and how this beast will fall, the chance of it being brought down from inside seems to be the best of possibilities. Because of this, an insurrectionary current could be working to hasten that collapse. The most obvious way would be to attack the technological infrastructure. Civilization has an intense level of dependency on electricity and ‘resources’ creating its greatest weakness.
The weakness comes from the fact that what this technological-industrial civilization is built on is limited resources, this means not only limited in future stock, but in present. The coal that fuels plants is brought into all great centers by trains and oil is transported by pipelines and trucks. There is a limited amount of on-hand fuel at all the pivotal power centers. The weakness here is that the system is dependent on electricity for its power over people, but also in order to sustain itself. The power that fuels empires comes from plants, and if those plants can’t produce, the empire cannot use it.
It is possible that if power was knocked out for at least two weeks in this nation civilization would be gone for good here. Civilization lacks the ability to bring itself back up to speed without using the same level of technology that it currently uses. For example, a single power storage house could be brought back online quickly so long as there are other machines there to try and fix the entire get up. But if power is wiped out in every major city and there is no other real options, what are the chances that it could be brought back on.
This has made the power grid a target for revolutionaries. It has long been recognized that general strikes completely stop a nation in its tracks because without product, and thus capital, flow, the lifeblood of the nation is cut off. This is a direct precursor to attacks on the grid, because it is about people recognizing that as the producers state power requires their complacency. The people themselves were the mega-machine as to some degrees they remain although the bulk of work has been automated now. Regardless all machines work with some degree of human interaction and the machines still need some workers to maintain/over see them. The power is still in our hands in this regard.
However, current revolutionary power must transcend a purely proletarian understanding. The technological system has grown immensely and it remains the key to state power. Over the last decades Latin American revolutionary currents have utilized attacks on the grid as one method of insurrection. Although their goal doesn’t seem to be the overall elimination of the technological infrastructure, their attacks have utilized its importance. For example, in order to successfully hit city-targets, the insurgents would attack the relatively isolated generators, wiping out electricity long enough to strike the institutions, rob banks, etc. What is important here is that taking out the power dehabilitated the functions of the state, opening up a framework for revolutionary potential.
If there was a large enough effort, continued attacks would essential decapitate the technological system. Electricity is the lifeblood of modern civilization, and a historical look at these actions seems to show that they could have continued their efforts and caused more permanent damage.
To look a little closer to home John Zerzan offers a look at the revolutionary surge that can be awaken via the New York blackout of 1977. (11) He points to the looting and street parties that transcended racial and sex lines as those who had nothing else to loose broke free during a period of anonymity. The drives of people into the street that were in that moment, “unmediated/un-ideologized have all the pigs scared shitless.” Imagine global blackout.
And what would happen in the mean time? People can only live off canned foods for so long before people are forced to try and deal with the situation or go down with the ship. There will be other issues as well, and people will be forced to question their dependency upon the technological system as cars and busses are inoperable. In a brief period of no electricity, it is possible to take that opportunity to awaken people to the complete insanity of the mechanic speed of technological society. The literal powerlessness of the state opens up all kinds of revolutionary possibilities for action. The more the state focuses its efforts on reestablishing its technocratic order, the more open it remains to sabotage on all levels.
Is this situation necessarily preferable? Compared to with the other possibilities we face (i.e. nuclear war) and the inevitability of collapse, who wouldn’t want to make a positive experience of it? It is important to remember that we aren’t so far removed from a life without technology and we are still fortunate enough to have living memories of the ‘old ways’. The hollow material comforts of spectacularized survival will be nothing when real experience and life are tasted. If the chances are taken to empower people who knows what could happen. We should always remember that things get worse before they get better, but we have the potential within our beings to do something about this.

This essay has been questions that I have been thinking about for some time now. An understanding of our situation is vital for us to move forward and far too many folks are standing on the sidelines waiting for something to be handed to them. Perhaps what we’re waiting for will begin when we start to make it happen, and what better time than now?
Again, this is far from any final comments on the subject, but an opening for where things could be going. Philosophical or theoretical ideas about when would be the perfect time for something to start aren’t making things happen. “Anything can happen”, so what are you waiting for?

 

[Justin S.]

Solutions and visions for realistic, large scale improvement are notably less abundant.

...We all seem to know(in our own assessment)what is wrong - but few seem in agreement on how to make it right, if we even have such lofty ideas at all. We may have small scale game-plans, or suggestions for how to lessen certain broader behavioral influences, spiritual influences, etc. But what is to be done to make any of these ideas workable or even palatable to the broader "masses," for without the support of the people, I don't see cultural change going very far.

...it's tough not be a bit of a defeatist regarding any meaningful change in attitudes. It's altogether depressing really.

The "solutions" are absent because the notion presupposes too much. What makes one think there is such a thing as "solution", and that "defeatism" is it's contrast?

"Visions" (which are not merely rough abstractions), however, are what we can put forth- but, and this is the largest of all qualifiers, any vision that reckons with "the real" and the limiting conditions of our existence is the farthest from implementation via any existing influential power structure (for good reason). Any vision that would be viewed as "workable or even palatable" by a general population, would be one catering to their inner-representations, not the situation at hand, thus, entirely un-workable, un-manageable, un-cohesive, etc. The very discourse of "solutions" and public support instantiate the chasm we hurl ourselves into.

What is to be done?

This calls to mind Kant's "fundamental questions" in his first critique: What can I know? What should I do? What may I hope?

What is to be done?... or, what may be done? "Must we despair, or may we still hope?"

In my sober appraisal, any talk of solutions and urgency of "action" reaches far beyond what we may do or hope. They say to stop digging when staring into such a pit...

Our essential error is that we have so effectively suppressed thought. The methods are endless, the goods and effects of all economies and institutions.

What is to be done? Tend the coals of thinking. All "doing" and praxis take direction from a cognition, whether it be the calculation of ideology or the expanse of Besinnung (mindfulness).

What we can know is limited, and our actions and hopes, if we are honest, will be as well. We ought not to continue our attempts at denying death, forcing "solutions" and historical moments, or hoping for the advent of the gods.

 

[Seditious]

I’m continually haunted by all this accumulated knowledge—just what is to be done with it?

I am full of doubts and pessimism of the efficacy of any solution. But I am not a philosopher.

I ask, what is to be done?

write a book. that's what I'm doing. it's at least a start (from there at least what you want to campaign to people will be well enough articulated that they can follow, even if the book itself achieves nothing more than further hiding the great books by adding its place in the library).

if you don't have the answers then at least write the book which makes people care about what you consider to be the problems and see them the same way you do so that they wake up and maybe one of them thinks up the answer.

 

[Crucified Spartacus]

The "solutions" are absent because the notion presupposes too much. What makes one think there is such a thing as "solution", and that "defeatism" is it's contrast?

"Visions" (which are not merely rough abstractions), however, are what we can put forth- but, and this is the largest of all qualifiers, any vision that reckons with "the real" and the limiting conditions of our existence is the farthest from implementation via any existing influential power structure (for good reason). Any vision that would be viewed as "workable or even palatable" by a general population, would be one catering to their inner-representations, not the situation at hand, thus, entirely un-workable, un-manageable, un-cohesive, etc. The very discourse of "solutions" and public support instantiate the chasm we hurl ourselves into.

What is to be done?

This calls to mind Kant's "fundamental questions" in his first critique: What can I know? What should I do? What may I hope?

What is to be done?... or, what may be done? "Must we despair, or may we still hope?"

In my sober appraisal, any talk of solutions and urgency of "action" reaches far beyond what we may do or hope. They say to stop digging when staring into such a pit...

Our essential error is that we have so effectively suppressed thought. The methods are endless, the goods and effects of all economies and institutions.

What is to be done? Tend the coals of thinking. All "doing" and praxis take direction from a cognition, whether it be the calculation of ideology or the expanse of Besinnung (mindfulness).

What we can know is limited, and our actions and hopes, if we are honest, will be as well. We ought not to continue our attempts at denying death, forcing "solutions" and historical moments, or hoping for the advent of the gods.

yes, very interesting, but what is to be done? start The Party, go to a protest, assasinate the president, boycott corporate products, vote Nader, attack the grid, etc.?:Smokin:

defeatism produces paralysis and by default does nothing to challenge the status quo beyond publication/distribution of ideas through various outlets.

 

[Norsemaiden]

I’ve spent a great deal of time arguing a great number of things related to, what I suppose I’d call social philosophy (social as in related to the realm of the world and life, not pure ideas). I’ve engaged in countless debates about politics, religion, power, and so on and so forth. And I think I’ve come to some conclusions. These include a Foucault-ian sense of repression of the individual to the discipline and power of bureaucracy and corporatism (also found in our educational institutions); the present orgy of materialism and consumerism—the fall and total decline of art and culture, and the cruel façade of modern culture; the problems with theories or answers to correct this decline (i.e. nationalism and other fun things); thus, the Wittgenstein-esque critique of all these philosophical theories—in which, questions that are really not questions, are answered, or problems that are not problems, are answered (the nonsense of it all). And you know, after all of this, I’m continually haunted by all this accumulated knowledge—just what is to be done with it?

What is to be done? We know all of our problems, and most of us can agree on the major issues, yet the solutions…well, perhaps it’s due to the philosophical or intellectual bent of persons involved in such a debate. As Bertrand Russell famously said, “The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.” Are we content to continue to let the businessmen, lawyers, and scientists create the future? I, for one, think most reasonably intelligent people are (including me). Despite a yearning for change (and my own classical—as in ancient classical bent) or action based on many of these great ideas, I am full of doubts and pessimism of the efficacy of any solution. But I am not a philosopher.

I ask, what is to be done?

You are copping out. You don't have the will to do anything to solve the problems and you asuage your guilt by deluding yourself that "businessmen, lawyers and scientists" a group with a common agenda of profiteering at the expense of anyone and anything, really are the best people to "create the future". Very disappointing.

Bertrand Russell famously said, “The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.”

Bertrand Russell was a fool and a fanatic and a major cause of society's degeneration - as was the Bloomsbury group altogether.

Originally Posted by Justin S.
The answer is obvious.

Impersonate an imagined Nietzsche, fill the internet with bombastic claims on history, anthropology, politics, etc., adopt a idealized pagan handle, ignore anything after the 19th century... this is the way to the truth and the revolution!

Who else but me can Justin S be referring to?

As a psychologist I see this as being Justin's subconcsious mind being highly agitated at the realisation that I do actually have all the answers!

I never knew my posts had such an impact before, and feel extremely flattered!

 

[Imp!]

Progress, speed.

This is your answer in a word. I'm among the middle of the board in terms of intelligence (I probably misspelled that word, lol), but I did think like you did at one time. When I was young I was trapped, my parents alcoholics, living as a hermet in my closet reading Koontz nonsense and listening to heavy metal (literally, my family could only afford a motel room, and the closet was where I slept and mostly stayed). You and I are not so different, what it is that we have in common is a)isolation, b) an uncertainty of how to proceed, c) an awareness of our uselessness. Perhaps once you act without question, communicate with others sans judgement, and maybe suspend your own ego, perhaps then you can accomplish something. Having a head full of thoughts is something that counts for nothing if you don't do anything. You might as well be one of the mindless masses that so many of you guys deride. Do something, at least seperate yourself from those you feel are inferior. I don't know what the hell you're gonna do, but I've got a girl to get, a brain to fill (with knowledge of course!), and a future to attain. Perhaps you need a mission to accomplish.

K, hope this wasn't a shit post, maybe one of you smarter folks know what I mean and can "intellectualize" it, if it's even worth it anyway...

Point is, you need a mission man, you gotta conquer something.

 

[Blowtus]

Point is, you need a mission man, you gotta conquer something.

Seems an excellent way to lead a life that feels good - but for some of us, conquering / doing just 'anything' isn't something that motivates. First we need to believe that what we are attempting is worthwhile. For some this comes all too easily, others 'maybe' waste too much time trapped in negative possibilities and fail to go anywhere. Nothing wrong with discourse on the matter though, if that is what Speed / some of us need I can't just 'do something' - I first need to work out the 'right something'.

 

[Crucified Spartacus]

Seems an excellent way to lead a life that feels good - but for some of us, conquering / doing just 'anything' isn't something that motivates. First we need to believe that what we are attempting is worthwhile. For some this comes all too easily, others 'maybe' waste too much time trapped in negative possibilities and fail to go anywhere. Nothing wrong with discourse on the matter though, if that is what Speed / some of us need I can't just 'do something' - I first need to work out the 'right something'.

a lot of my working out of what i lean towards came through trying a lot of different things, learning from them, and evolving. i wouldn't underestimate the ability of action to influence/enhance philosophy which further influeces/enhances action.

 

[Seditious]

I can't just 'do something' - I first need to work out the 'right something'.

plenty to pick from. save the whales or the homeless or the drug addicts or the immigrants or children with diseases, plant new trees, recycle, teach, whatever. it'll at least pass the time til you find a cause you're passionate about. there's surely one out there which doesn't seem like a completely trivial thing unworthy of your time and energy out there.

 

[Blowtus]

Presently, teaching myself and enhancing my own understanding, with a view to having a better chance of finding the right 'something' seems the best option...

 

[Justin S.]

Who else but me can Justin S be referring to?

Half the board fits the bill, along with a few other sites I can think of...

 

[Justin S.]

This thread is physically revolting.

Recycle? "Conquer something"? Write a book? Find a cause?!

 

[Crucified Spartacus]

This thread is physically revolting.

Recycle? "Conquer something"? Write a book? Find a cause?!

 

[MURAI]

Christ, then what do you want?

 

[Seditious]

This thread is physically revolting.

Recycle? "Conquer something"? Write a book? Find a cause?!

Is that why you didn't have anything better to contribute than a long-winded 'do nothing...'?