what keeps metal waaay underground.

[The saYer]

Reading the exodus thread, I was thinking that all the great bands don't get paid much and have to play in venues with problems that make them cancel them, while all the hiphoppy pop rocky mallcore bands play in the great arenas and are regarded as the only metal that exists. I think that real metal is kept from the people and this new crap music is regarded as metal because They want shit bands that they can control and destroy whenever they want.

Think about it, why would all the bands never be mentioned as if they never existed. The only old school bands ever mentioned are metallica, ac/dc, led zepellin, and kiss as if they were the only metal, while 3 out of those arent metal and the other one sucks.

If you talk to a "metal" fan, they say that numetal is when it got fast and heavy, and they never heard anything heavy before korn?

I think that this whole scam will come to an end with high speed internet and growing communication, but for the meantime, it annoys me how they can take outr genre and try to exterminate it by redefining it with hiphop crap.

 

[AntonCrowley_16]

I agree tottally. All them ppl think its all screams and yells that you cant understand, when its really not. The fucking media warps ppls mind into liking watever is popular. Theres always some sort of trend, right now its punk, and its dying away. The only bands that ever make any money are the shit played radio or tv, though there is some exceptions like Pantera, and Anthrax.

 

[Lord of Delusions]

There are many reasons why. Its often dirty, mean, faster than shit, you certainly can't dance to it, and no one would let their child go to school with a Cradle of Filth lunchbox. Also there is very little sex appeal, and you just can't market hardcore metal like you can pop or what passes for metal these days. If there was money in metal, it would be everywhere, and we would be regarded in much the same way as the suburban kids with the sideways/upsidedown visors pimpin in their mom's BMW. Yeah, its too bad that there are bands out there bustin' their ass to do what they do and make very little if any money, but in a way it keeps the music honest. And that is a good thing.

 

[Hawk]

You are right Sayer but I agree with Lord of Delusions [good post btw Lord!];

If you lived through the late 80s the last thing you want to see is metal becoming mainstream again.

During the late 80s the mainstream "metal" bands that were popular had nothing to do with metal! The sooner everyone excepts this the better:

Metal as we define it will never make it to the mainstream. If it did, millions of wannabe copy bands would rise up destroying any value our favorite music has.

Metal, our metal, is by definition underground music and rightly so! You don't want to think about the load of BS releases when our music would become poplar, believe me, its not worth it!

 

[Greeno]

but in a way it keeps the music honest. And that is a good thing.

I agree with LoD. By staying underground people have to search for this music, they have to come to the music the music does not come to them. This tends to keep the "casual listeners" away.... which is a good thing. I for one hope metal never gets out of the underground again, after the mainstream gets ahold of it it get's twisted into what ever sells the most copies.

For the about the last 10 years a rule of thumb for me is if it's on the radio, MTv or the cover of Rolling Stone I avoid it at all costs.

 

[Hawk]

Great post Greeno! And boy! Do I agree.

 

[Igor_Cavalera]

but in a way it keeps the music honest. And that is a good thing.

You said it man!

a rule of thumb for me is if it's on the radio, MTv or the cover of Rolling Stone I avoid it at all costs.

So true. It's sad but it's the price we have to pay to keep real metal, real.

 

[SoundMaster]

Be THANKFUL that metal is currently underground.

As others have stated, it keeps the music "honest" & real.
For example, when metal WAS gaining momentum & was moving 'above ground' in the early 80s, bands, radio & especially record company executives took notice. And, of course, the cursed mid-late 80s metal era reared it's dastardly, ugly head.

Would Judas Priest, the band that gave us tracks such as "Beyond the Realms of Death", "the Ripper", "Grinder" and the like have then gone out & produced such cheesy fluff-metal anthems as "Parental Guidance" or "Rock You All Around the World" if there was not BUCKETS of cash to be made?

Would Ozzy, the man behind the godly Sabbath and KILLER solo tunes such as "Over the Mountain" and "You Cant Kill Rock n Roll" have begun to dress in frilly, shiny costumes with poofy hair?

And why did Motley Crue go from releasing the VERY heavy "Shout At the Devil" to the completelly radio-pop-MTV oriented "Theater of Pain"? For the money! It's that simple.

And we don't even need to comment on Metallica.

When $$$ calls, the product begins to decline.

Heck, the band Saxon (whom I've recently discovered) went from spear-heading the NWOBHM to being, a self-confessed, "Def Leppard, Pyromania-era rip off band". Again, chasing the cash will do this to you.

The BEST thing that ever happened to metal was the rise of the 80s hair-cheese-fluff-sissy metal of the mid-late 80s. If not for the awful music of bands such as Cinderella, Poison, etc. ad nauseum, and if not for the rise of the great early 90s Seatle grunge bands (metal, IMO), this fluffy cheese crap may still rule the roost today.
But logically, they failed because they not (mostly) musicians. Image & cheese translated to big succe$$ in the eyes of the suits, and lesser bands were signed by the dozen.
'Tis the reason why the 90s was such a great decade for metal. The rise of the Euro bands was an awesome thing to witness (Opeth, Anathema, My Dying Bride, Katatonia, Tea Party, Porcupine Tree, etc)!

 

[Tye]

The roles have reversed. Today noise and angst sell (slipknot etc) and melody does not (Silentium, Rhapsody). Strange huh?

 

[Hell Mike]

Real metal is not for regular people

 

[Psychonaut]

Although it's nice for the bands to make money, many of them say they're in it to make good music. This being said, I think metal differs from any other genre in that the mark of a good band is not record sales, but being remembered. Here at UMOS, we do a good job of keeping the names out there and it has to be a good feeling for Clammy to be in an old school band that still has as many active fans as Exciter do. Of course, if it were up to me, I'd make sure the truely good and deserving bands made plenty of money for keeping me happy all these years. Everyone knows you don't list "Join a heavy metal band" in your top ten ways to early retirement.

 

[Bryant]

I'll tell you why...... "real metal" is for the mid 20-40 age group. We have the money to see them, but not the time. Teens have our money to see their bands and the time. It's not a lack of interest, but the way thingsare in this world right now. I do nothing but fucking work.


Bryant

 

[carnut]

. I do nothing but fucking work.


Bryant

You should try and work less Bryant, get's to your system

Why real Metal is underground ? All different reasons from above I guess.
But I think there should be a way or public for good metal bands, to make them earn a living out of their music. Not to get filthy rich, but at least have a decent living out of it. That I blame the big record companies for, they are only interested in mainstream stuff that brings in cash, without supporting any other styles of less commercial music. Look, like selling 10.000 copies of a record isn't worldshocking, but if bands would get a decent share of the profits of those 10.000 it would be a very different picture...
Luckely metal has it's fair part of very loyal fans that make the world remember...And I've met 2 or 3 guys in their 20's lately that are digging 1980's metal the hard way, so it's working !!!
Speaking of young oldschool lovers...were's Fang lately ??

 

[Igor_Cavalera]

Don't be like that Bryant.. I'm only 16 and my mother doesn't have the money to just throw at me if I want to go see a band. If I want money I have to work for it. And between work and school there's no time to sleep let alone go to concerts.

Not everyone's the same. I'm a 16 year old who loves old school metal and has to earn money by working, just like you. Please don't place me in a stereotype.

 

[Wyvern]

Heck, the band Saxon (whom I've recently discovered) went from spear-heading the NWOBHM to being, a self-confessed, "Def Leppard, Pyromania-era rip off band". Again, chasing the cash will do this to you.

Bullshit. Saxon even in their weakest albums "Rock The Nations" and "Destiny" was a zillion times better than Def Leppard (even in the only worthy albums).

Sorry I had never need of really underground metal, and I still don't need it. Wolf, Rival, Steel Prophet, Blind Guardian, Well Of Souls, Helloween, Saxon, Motorhead, and a zillion more bands are real enough metal for me.

Speaking of young oldschool lovers...were's Fang lately ??

I e-mail him awhile ago. It seems that he has been through some problems, I didn't want to press him more regarding the subject. I hope he'll be able to return

 

[Hawk]

Sorry I had never need of really underground metal, and I still don't need it. Wolf, Rival, Steel Prophet, Blind Guardian, Well Of Souls, Helloween, Saxon, Motorhead, and a zillion more bands are real enough metal for me.

I don't mean to critize you buddy but all those band you name with the exeption of Saxon, Motorhead and Helloween are as underground as they come.

It might be possible that you define the term "underground" differently then I do, so for the sake of clarity here's my definition:

Underground bands are simply bands that don't belong to the big names [Iron Maiden or Megadeth] nor to the B division, who are a bit less populair that the big names [Jag Panzer, Annihilator are 2 that come to mind].

Underground bands are bands that can hardly make any money. If you ever wondered if your favorite band earned enought money to keep going than that's an underground band. Few people even in the *regular* metal scene, I am not talking about the underground metal scene, know them. They might have heard of them, but don't take the trouble [= underground band!] to check them out.

I hopes this clarifies my position a bit.

I e-mail him awhile ago. It seems that he has been through some problems, I didn't want to press him more regarding the subject. I hope he'll be able to return

Me too I was thinking about him lately. I hope he's alright.

 

[Wyvern]

It might be possible that you define the term "underground" differently then I do, so for the sake of clarity here's my definition:

Underground bands are bands that can hardly make any money. If you ever wondered if your favorite band earned enought money to keep going than that's an underground band. Few people even in the *regular* metal scene, I am not talking about the underground metal scene, know them. They might have heard of them, but don't take the trouble [= underground band!] to check them out.

I hopes this clarifies my position a bit.

I knew this was coming my way

Indeed that's why I posted really underground. To me underground are bands that belong to absolutely unknown labels, self produce their albums (or don't produce them), rarely pass the demo stage, play mainly bars around their cities and are known only by some fans and websites who believe that buying an album on a jewel case is to betray the cause.

I don't mean to insult anyone, but I have receive a lot of shit from the undergrounders in some forums and they really got my nerves.

Ofr course I hope that the bands I like, get enough compensation for their efforts to carry on, and make more music that I like. But since making it big usually is synonymous to sell your ass to the label and media, I don't like my bands to get dirty famous, lots of airplay, no MTV whatsoever, and no Ozzpest. I like to thing my metal is elite, let the masses consume shit.

Sorry if I appear rude, today is a bad day.

 

[Hawk]

I knew this was coming my way

Hey don't worry I did not mean it in a bad way

Indeed that's why I posted really underground. To me underground are bands that belong to absolutely unknown labels, self produce their albums (or don't produce them), rarely pass the demo stage, play mainly bars around their cities and are known only by some fans and websites who believe that buying an album on a jewel case is to betray the cause.

You know what? You're right! That is really the underground. I used it in a much wider sense. You know i n the 80s I *never* traded demo's and cared for that scene around it.

I don't mean to insult anyone, but I have receive a lot of shit from the undergrounders in some forums and they really got my nerves.

Same here, not all of them, but a lot of them are arrogant fucks who don't know shit. 80% of the so called fantastic band never make it beyond the demo stage.

Ofr course I hope that the bands I like, get enough compensation for their efforts to carry on, and make more music that I like. But since making it big usually is synonymous to sell your ass to the label and media,

Usually, but not always, look at Nevermore, Symphony X or Children of Bodom. These bands have been loyal to their public and have not forgotten their roots. Of course all of the bands I am mentioning are on independent labels!

usuallyI don't like my bands to get dirty famous, lots of airplay, no MTV whatsoever, and no Ozzpest. I like to thing my metal is elite, let the masses consume shit.

Well that the consensus in this tread

Sorry if I appear rude, today is a bad day.

Not at all buddy! I hope your day will brighten up!

 

[Clammy]

Although it's nice for the bands to make money, many of them say they're in it to make good music. This being said, I think metal differs from any other genre in that the mark of a good band is not record sales, but being remembered. Here at UMOS, we do a good job of keeping the names out there and it has to be a good feeling for Clammy to be in an old school band that still has as many active fans as Exciter do. Of course, if it were up to me, I'd make sure the truely good and deserving bands made plenty of money for keeping me happy all these years. Everyone knows you don't list "Join a heavy metal band" in your top ten ways to early retirement.

Yeah, it's quite an honour to be in Exciter. When they released their first record, I was only 13 or 14 years old! John Ricci has told me some amazing road stories from the time of the very BIRTH of speed/thrash metal when they would tour with the likes of Metallica, Motorhead, Megadeth, Anthrax, Accept, etc... Makes me wish I had a time machine and could go back and be there when this music was being invented!

As for waht keeps Metal underground:

The general population of this planet are sheep that WANT to be told what to think, and want simple things... well, it doesn't get much simpler than pop music! Not to mention it's way cheaper for record companies to "discover" and push that crap out the door. All they need is a pretty face, and the ability to lip-synch and dance and not argue with the company execs... Metalheads are notorious for having artistic integrity, writing their own material, playing their own instruments, and will fight to have what THEY want put out there... that's a headache for the labels. Not to mention, that most good metal is actually thought provoking... the masses don't like that!

Cheers!

 

[JonnyD]

I knew this was coming my way

Indeed that's why I posted really underground. To me underground are bands that belong to absolutely unknown labels, self produce their albums (or don't produce them), rarely pass the demo stage, play mainly bars around their cities and are known only by some fans and websites who believe that buying an album on a jewel case is to betray the cause.

I don't mean to insult anyone, but I have receive a lot of shit from the undergrounders in some forums and they really got my nerves.

Ofr course I hope that the bands I like, get enough compensation for their efforts to carry on, and make more music that I like. But since making it big usually is synonymous to sell your ass to the label and media, I don't like my bands to get dirty famous, lots of airplay, no MTV whatsoever, and no Ozzpest. I like to thing my metal is elite, let the masses consume shit.

Sorry if I appear rude, today is a bad day.

Naw you dont appear rude Actually you make alot of sense!