What should I get? Blackstar Series One 6L6, Kemper, or Axe-FX II??

[drew_drummer]

I'm after something that can do live performance through a guitar cab (not FRFR) as well as silent bedroom and studio recording.

Now in terms of amps, I've already got a Rockerverb MKI 100-watt, Laney VH100R, and a Carlsbro 60's PA valve head. In terms of silent recording, I have Amplitube, Podfarm, Revalver, Guitar Rig, and the freebie stuff from LePou.

I have used the Axe FX II and sonically it wipes the floor with all of the software options above. I used it through a Matrix Amplification poweramp into a guitar cab also, and it sounded very close to a real guitar amp - in fact I am not very confident that I could pick between a real Diezel VH4 and the Axe FX VH4 in a blind test.

I've not used the Kemper. I heard that bypassing the cab isn't 100% bypass, but it can be overcome easily with EQ. It's a MUCH simpler device, so has that going for it. Still does all the effects I would need, and has an effects loop for adding other effects to the rig. I'm one of those people who thinks it looks cool too, so the aesthetics isn't really a negative for me.

I've not used the Blackstar Series One 6L6 head, but it is a real amp, and has a simulated output for recording. It sounds pretty good from what I've heard on Youtube.

The Axe-FX is pretty damn expensive, plus I'd need a Matrix Amplification poweramp in the future plus a midi controller to control the Axe FX. It's also a very complicated beast - I'm not 100% confident that it would be easy to edit the settings on the fly in the rehearsal room, or at a gig.

I guess each has their own pro's and cons.... I'm just really undecided. I've wanted an Axe-FX for so long... but now the Kemper is on the scene, and that Cliff guy at Fractal has been a proper bellend about having some real competition, that's one aspect that puts me off.

Finally, I like the two modellers in terms of weight.... my back is getting old!!

 

[cyoung]

Drew - I have a Blackstar Stage 100 (not the Series 1) and have used the emulated out. For me, it's not that great for silent recording as it still sounds like a modeler. Since you already have tube amps, why not get a Torpedo live for silent recording. I'm gassing for one right now.

 

[kev]

I have to vote axe fx naturally

 

[FIXXXER]

AXE-FX II

 

[006]

I think the Kemper can be made to sound closer to the real deal from all of the clips and comparisons I have heard. It's cheaper than the AxeFx, and the effects on it are just as good as the ones on the AxeFx from what I understand from those that own both units. The interface seems to be a lot easier to use on the KPA. I have no personal experience with either, except the old AF Ultra, but I was heavily considering getting the AxeFx II until the KPA was brought to my attention and all the subsequent clips/comparisons/videos came around, I was sold.

Also: inb4 a certain someone says they used it and didn't like it, after not profiling amps correctly.

 

[Keregioz]

Kemper by far....just because of the price difference. Since you live in europe I assume the difference between kemper and axeFXII is about 700euros? At least here in Greece it's something like that.
I haven't played any of them but from what I've heard I'm convinced that kemper sounds just as good, if not better, than axefx.

 

[john2910]

Hello i must say absolutly the kemper amp..

I sold my axe fx ultra for the kemper...

Its perfect for home recording.

Easy to carry.

Not to expensive..

And for the the tone...its the best out there...it feels and plays like the real deal....

 

[hsnyder]

Well... I have a Palmer PDI-03 that I don't use anymore. You can use the built in speaker simulation or you can use IRs or nebula programs (preferably Kalthallen or similar)... If you're interested PM me - its a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new amp.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

Kemper IMO, can't really think of any disadvantages to it compared with the Axe FX except for the lack of rack mounting (not a big deal IMO) - doesn't it require a power amp too though?

 

[Artean]

From a (direct) recording stand point, I would absolutely recommend the Kemper. I sold my Axe fx 2 a couple of weeks ago and got the Kemper instead. So far, it is far more easy to get a more "natural" tone from it compared with the Axe. And certainly so if you are going for the standard 5150/Dual recto tone.

The Axe gets new firmwares that sure develops the sound over time, but new profiles to the Kemper is even more exciting and useful.

 

[drew_drummer]

Can the Kemper cut it with the cabs bypassed, going into a real cab?

In terms of tones, I'm after really crystaline cleans, dirty cleans, crunches, and high-gain rhythms. VH4, 5150, Orange, Marshall JVM tones. I don't typically go for the kind of tone you hear a lot around here - rarely do I use a tubescreamer to tighten up low-end, and I don't really go for that melodic death metal kind of tone. I'm more of a hard-rock kinda guy.

Having heard the Axe-FX II through a real cab (V30+Alnico gold 2x12) I know it would give me the tones. But as someone said, the price difference is pretty staggering. The complexity of the unit puts me off too - I've typically always been a plug-in-and-play kind of player. Even though I've used complex amps before, they're still tons more intuitive than a menu based thing.

I'm also quite sensitive to latency and silence circuits when switching channels on amps and patches on multi-fx... the Axe isn't too bad with this, but using a single preset with the upcoming 'scenes' mapping would be much tighter. I don't know how the Kemper deals with this truth be told.

From videos and demos I've heard, the built in EQ in the Kemper sounds pretty harsh and severe to me, but obviously I want to try it in the flesh before this becomes my opinion!! Being able to profile my amps though, and switch between my Orange Clean and my Laney high-gain ... that's a pretty tantalizing option to me. Plus there are shedloads of good amps for it out there.

And it's quite a bit cheaper than the Axe-FX too.

 

[aortizjr]

How picky are you for live tones compared to studio tone and silent recording?

Live for me is more about convenience and quick control as long as the tone is good enough. Also considering portability.

Recording is the priority for solid tones, and of course I want it to be quiet and/or more convenient that cranking up and micing an amp. Especially when inspiration strikes.

In the price range of an AxeFX II, I have a Kemper for the studio. Then I got a used Digitech GSP1101 with the Control 2. Then grabbed a Carvin BX500 to use as a power amp (run into the FX Return). Weighs next to nothing in a 4U rack with a power conditioner.

As far as control and ease of use, it is awesome. Extremely intuitive and the Control 2 is wicked (stompbox and patch control, wah control, tap tempo, phantom power, etc.). On the Control 2 adjusting amp controls is right there for venue tweaking. The BX500 has a tube post FX Return and you have a Graphic EQ for tweaking also.

It feels good, quick switching, spill-over FX etc. For tone, it is certainly really good for live tone. I get compliments all the time and the midrange is much more natural sounding than processors in it's price range. I have A/B'd with a 5150 and Legacy, using the native poweramp and it is REALLY close, probably couldn't tell blind.

The Kemper sounds nearly identical to a mic'd amp in the studio which is awesome! The downside is portability. It is pretty large and awkward for live use. You would have to either have a custom case, or essentially pull it out every time and hook it up from scratch.

For me live is all about getting decent tone and getting on/off stage as fast as you can. Unless you are huge. And for tone, between shitty clubs and incompetent sound guys, good enough is good enough. Everything in a 4U rack ready to go makes life a LOT easier.

Anyway I am pretty happy with my setup, and I own plenty of tube amps (Savage 120, Mesa Mark III, Sovtek, Dual Rec, 5150, 5150 III, etc). I am profiling them and have been extremely happy. They will never see the stage again.

 

[drew_drummer]

I'm fairly picky about live tone, since I do much more live playing than I do recording. My key things that I want, functionally speaking:

Seamless patch changing
Reverb + delay BEFORE the amp distortion
4 levels of gain - clean, disto clean, crunch rhythm, high-gain rhythm/lead
Ability to plug into a poweramp and go into a real guitar cab.

... that's about it really, functionally speaking. All of my choices would give me this. I tend to think that the Axe FX is difficult to program on the fly - say we're in practice and I want to come up with a brand new tone - but maybe this comes easier when you've had more than 3-5 hours with the unit!?!?

I am fairly concerned about weight, but it isn't my primary concern. I guess my primary concern is having a large range of amp sounds that I can augment with effects, and then be able to record that same sound at a reasonable bedroom level without fucking off my wife or neighbours, or heaven forbid, my kid (if the father in law gets his way!!) ....

I also don't think the Kemper is as experimentally minded as the Axe FX - ie... doing violin sounds and the like....

I lean towards the Axe, if it wasn't for the price!!

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

In that case, fuck the price, suck it up

 

[Boerboel666]

Axe fx2 would do the job nicely , for live use it has a good track record of reliability as well . It is expensive but it has saved my arse in recording situations many times . Constant improvement based on user feedback is also nice and happens at a rate which is hard to believe at times . Not knocking the other products you mention but for an all rounder in every situation it's hard to beat .

 

[Keregioz]

Yeah, I'd still go with the kemper...I don't need to give an extra 700euros to make my guitar sound like a violin...

Seriously though, I get the impression that the main thing that puts you off the kemper is the supposed "coloration" that remains on the tone if you remove the cab simulation. Personally, I really don't think that should be that big of a problem, there are loads of people out there using the kemper with amp+cab with no complaints, I've even heard a couple of youtube videos and it sounded great. Plus, from what I've read, since you actually own the amps that have the tone you are looking for, there is the option to profile them by using the direct out from the amps (bypassing the cabs) so you'll have the genuine dry preamp tone in the kemper to feed into your amp+cab (I'm pretty sure of this, still would be nice if someone who owns a kemper can confirm it).

 

[john2910]

Here a clip without the cab simulation on the kemper...

Its sounds great....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP7blIHLN0U&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

Plus, from what I've read, since you actually own the amps that have the tone you are looking for, there is the option to profile them by using the direct out from the amps (bypassing the cabs) so you'll have the genuine dry preamp tone in the kemper to feed into your amp+cab (I'm pretty sure of this, still would be nice if someone who owns a kemper can confirm it).

That's pretty awesome, I hope it's possible (can't see why not)

 

[drew_drummer]

Yeah, I'd still go with the kemper...I don't need to give an extra 700euros to make my guitar sound like a violin...

Seriously though, I get the impression that the main thing that puts you off the kemper is the supposed "coloration" that remains on the tone if you remove the cab simulation. Personally, I really don't think that should be that big of a problem, there are loads of people out there using the kemper with amp+cab with no complaints, I've even heard a couple of youtube videos and it sounded great. Plus, from what I've read, since you actually own the amps that have the tone you are looking for, there is the option to profile them by using the direct out from the amps (bypassing the cabs) so you'll have the genuine dry preamp tone in the kemper to feed into your amp+cab (I'm pretty sure of this, still would be nice if someone who owns a kemper can confirm it).

I think it's part of it, sure. Being a bit of a tone freak, I'm not 100% comfortable with the colouration - but I must stress, I've not tried the Kemper. I have no experience with it other than clips I've heard on the web. Which admittedly nearly universally have impressed me.

I saw that video after I made this thread, the one where he uses the Peavey power amp. Unfortunately I'm only on laptop speakers at the moment (still on holiday in Japan) so can't really judge it objectively. But that FastRedPonyCar guy makes everything sound amazing if you ask me!

It looks to me that if you want complex rigs, otherworldly sounds, and vast expansive possibilities, then the Axe is the one to go for.

If you want ease of use, instant feel-good factor, and a massive expanding range of amp sounds, then the Kemper is the one to go for. Not being able to have reverb/delay prior to the stack section isn't such a downer - you can insert the effects loop into the chain, and use another effects unit. I have a JHV3 modded Line 6 M9 that I could use for that stuff.

Hmm... I guess I need to try out the Kemper first and see where I am from there.

What would be the easiest way to rack up the Kemper along with a poweramp - basically get a shelf for it to sit on, and fix it down to the shelf... ???

 

[MatrixClaw]

Live tone with the Kemper really shouldn't be an issue, assuming you mean playing shows. The cab and power amp would just be to fill sound in the front, where the PA can't reach, because of its directional design and physical placement. You'd be running an XLR cable directly to the board, with your cab sim on to that output, which is what will make up 95% of the tone heard in the venue.

The Axe is cool, but after 7 months of playing with that thing, I still couldn't dial in a tone I was completely happy with. In fact, I found it much easiertto find a good tone in TSE's free sims, that I could process and make sound much more "real" than the Axe. The Axe did sound superb for lower and mid gain stuff, but the high gain just wasn't working for me. I've heard some great clips of it, don't get me wrong. I'm sure the tones are in there, but I felt like I was spending 90% of the time tweaking and 10% playing. The thing was so complicated and frustrating to get into the deep editing features, that it completely took away the fun of playing guitar for me. I ended up selling it and buying a Kemper, and within 5 minutes, I had a sound I'd be completely happy using on a record release.

PS, Kemper and Matrix will be releasing their own power amps for the Kemper that plug into the hole in the back, effectively making it a 14lb head.