what to do when someone else is mastering?

[brianhood]

what do you guys do mixwise when someone is mastering it? I have to admit that all of my previous work was mixed with the master fader slammed so that i could tell how the final product will sound. When i disable everything on the master fader, it usually sounds really weird/weak, and the snare is waaay loud....
not sure what to do here.

should i check back and forth with the limiter and stuff on to get an idea of how the final product will sound, or should i just get the best mix possible without even checking. With that, i'd be afraid the snare might be gone once it's mastered.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

ask the mastering engineer I'd say-

usually you'd not limit the 2bus at all, some gentle compression is allright if it belongs to the mix.
I usually mix so that the mix sounds good and perhaps leave the vox and snare a cunthait louder.....but I'd not go too far with that, the mix alone should sound good....if yours falls apart when you take the limiting away it's a clear sign that you should start working on your mixing w/o a limiter on

 

[GeertSamuel]

I got told to make a mix that sounds awesome at a -2db so there's enough room for the mastering to play around. Then when I've got a mix that sounds great on that, get the L2 and put it to -2, then check out the levels of the instruments, and tweak those so they are back on the correct levels. Then on output, I should remove the L2.
This is what Colin Davis adviced me some years ago.

 

[TheDriller]

Just mix it really, really well

 

[Ermz]

It's important that the mix is controlled dynamically before it even hits the ME's desk. You need to use stages of compression, individual tracks, busses, stereo mix in order to have a product that's controlled at the source and won't rely on an ME having to brickwall every last inch of life to get the desired level. Most top-level mixes already sound nearly maximized/mastered simply because of how well the dynamic content is controlled.

Give the ME a bit of headroom to work with, but do NOT rely on them to get the entire sound for you. Get the sound yourself, but give them something to work with.

 

[Sacha]

Our ME said he preferred nothing on the master bus if possible, and levels peaking around -4 or so. I figured let him use his sweet Pendulum or whatever compressor as opposed to my SSL plugin (which I still really like).

I did the latter part of the mix with faux mastering - comp, limiter etc. and definitely had to do some tweaking to balance things with and without. In the end it sounded good with no master bus processing, but the kick and snare where a bit louder as I knew they would be diminished a bit.

 

[crazykarl]

Have a bunch of friends with good ears and different different systems listen to it. Take some advice from them and tweak the mix. If you can get the mix sounding good on a bunch of different systems BEFORE mastering then the final product should be totally killer.

 

[beyond dead]

I would say try to limit things before they hit the 2 bus so that there is less need for limiting on the 2 bus. clip the snare peaks that poke out of your mix in the mixing stage giving you a more "sausage" like wavform without master bus comp.

keep in mnd I master everything I mix.. lol

 

[Styvo]

Good question Brian,

It's been pointed out already that you should speak with the mastering engineer,although this isn't always an option as you might just be working on the mix and the client decides who will be the person in charge of mastering there product.

As you would already be aware most "Pro" Mastering Houses tend to use outboard gear.

I was recently speaking to a guy who will be doing my Mastering using mostly outboard gear,he stated to me that he would like the mix broken down to stems and advised me to leave between -6 to -4db headroom.
He also suggested that some compression on the 2 buss wouldn't be a big deal providing it wasn't over the top.

So with this in mind........my work continues.

 

[Dalinkwent48@aim.com]

i heard that a few mastering guys like getting the mixes at -18db cuz it gives them a ton of headroom to work there magic...also heard that mastering should only be minor adjustments so it would seem like -18 of headroom is wayyyyyy too much....but -2 in my opinion just seems like not enough...i always try to keep my mixes between -6 to -10db

 

[Ermz]

-18dB would imply degrading your overall mix because there would be far fewer significant bits representing the waveform. In digital the most 'pure' representation happens up near the 0dBFS point. Always aim to give 'just enough' headroom, not too much and not too little. That's not even taking into account the noise boosted along with your mix if the ME has to crank the input gain on their outboard gear by a fair few dB. What I don't understand is peoples aversion to having roughly normalized mixes. It doesn't matter if your greatest peak peaks at -10dB or -1dB, your dynamic range is still the same unless you dynamically process one differently to the other. I'd rather retain bit fidelity by printing 'hotter' and have the ME turn down the input gain on the outboard if needed rather than print a coarser waveform in digital where that quality can never be regained.

There's a great segment on this in the 'Digital vs Analogue' chapter of Stav's book 'Mixing with your mind'.

 

[BLUElightCory]

If you mixed INTO the compressor - that is, if the compressor was on the master while you mixed the song, then I would definitely NOT remove it. Leave it on there.

The reason is that you will have made all of your mixing decisions based on how the tracks sounded running though the compressor. If you've mixed into a compressor and then you remove the compressor, it will significantly change the way your mix sounds.

Just make sure to leave a few dBs of room for the mastering engineer to play with.

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

It's important that the mix is controlled dynamically before it even hits the ME's desk. You need to use stages of compression, individual tracks, busses, stereo mix in order to have a product that's controlled at the source and won't rely on an ME having to brickwall every last inch of life to get the desired level. Most top-level mixes already sound nearly maximized/mastered simply because of how well the dynamic content is controlled.

Give the ME a bit of headroom to work with, but do NOT rely on them to get the entire sound for you. Get the sound yourself, but give them something to work with.

Really? I just mixed an album and all songs peaked at -2.5/-3 more or less, and I mixed it so it would sound really good but it isn't nearly maximized, you can tell it need mastering, I thought it was supposed to be this way. When I'm doing my own stuff I usually mix really hot, but when it's to be mastered outside I thought it should be this way?

 

[akarawd]

Here's my way of doing it ; the mix has to have correctly compressed stems - once it sounds under control not much should be poking here and there. Work at whatever level will not produce any clipping at all, then strap your limiter, ceiling at -0.1. You should really be a step away from having it perfect, maybe a tiny adjustment in the snare but if it survived the overall drum stem compression it should be good to go. Take the limiter off and you're done. Your mix might sound really low in volume, but trust me mastering engineers actually appreciate that. There are alternatives, like mixing into the limiter etc - your goal is to have a mix that does not behave in a strange way once the mastering engineer applies compression/limiting etc Let them take care of the general eq curve if necessary and the level craziness, they've got the right tools and experience for the task.

Regards,
Thanos