What would a perfect language include?

[metal_wrath]

I think Finnish and Hungarian are usually considered the most difficult non-Asian languages to learn (they come from the same language branch). Czech has seven cases to the 21 (I think) of Finnish. That has got to be a pain in the arse.

Basque is considered very difficult possibly more so than the Finno-Ugric languages.

The many different cases for words seems unneccesarily complex in many languages.

Esperanto allows for only a few forms for each word.

 

[Vimana]

This is uneccesary and makes it more difficult to learn. It would have to completely get rid of the gender articles and other unnecessary things.

Gender is extremely important. In Spanish we never have to stop the conversation for someone to explain that their professor is male or female. It is annoying that there is no neuter, because it creates pointless gender assignment to nouns that in reality have no gender. For example: in Spanish a chair is feminine, yet car is masculine. In Latin the genders are assigned more logically. A perfect language would have to have logically assigned genders.

edit: See last page, I already explained the points named above.

 

[metal_wrath]

Gender is extremely important. In Spanish we never have to stop the conversation for someone to explain that their professor is male or female. It is annoying that there is no neuter, because it creates pointless gender assignment to nouns that in reality have no gender. For example: in Spanish a chair is feminine, yet car is masculine. In Latin the genders are assigned more logically. A perfect language would have to have logically assigned genders.

edit: See last page, I already explained the points named above.

Gender in language is largely unnecessary. I am not speaking of nouns themselves that change for male or female for humans, for instance Esperanto has amiko and amikino. But really does anyone need to know if you are talking about a male or female professor? Maybe next we should have different words for each race lol.

There is no perfect way to "assign" genders to things that have no gender. A perfect language would get rid of this burden altogether.

 

[derek]

Clitoris is masculine in Czech. I've always found that more hilarious than I probably should.

 

[Vimana]

Gender in language is largely unnecessary. I am not speaking of nouns themselves that change for male or female for humans, for instance Esperanto has amiko and amikino. But really does anyone need to know if you are talking about a male or female professor? Maybe next we should have different words for each race lol.

There is no perfect way to "assign" genders to things that have no gender. A perfect language would get rid of this burden altogether.

In situations, yes, a person would need to know if one is talking about a male or female professor. Or a male or female anything. The perfect way to assign genders to things that have no gender is making them neuter. It is not really a burden because all it requires is knowing a simple change of declension.

 

[hexwind]

Gender is extremely important. In Spanish we never have to stop the conversation for someone to explain that their professor is male or female. It is annoying that there is no neuter, because it creates pointless gender assignment to nouns that in reality have no gender. For example: in Spanish a chair is feminine, yet car is masculine. In Latin the genders are assigned more logically. A perfect language would have to have logically assigned genders.

edit: See last page, I already explained the points named above.

I agree, in Arabic, there eve we or them are specified with gender and quantity, so you have 5 different terms that equal "them" in English.

 

[Einherjar86]

Forgot about this thread. I'm going to change my previous statement (which was actually serious), and say that a perfect language should achieve poiesis.

Poetry is derived from this Greek term, which originally meant "to make." I interpret it more in the vein of Martin Heidegger; essentially, it means a bringing-forth into a new form. A perfect language would transcend the words themselves and become their essence.

It has been held, traditionally, that this is what poetry is supposed to do. Which is why I originally said poetry.

 

[Vimana]

It has been held, traditionally, that this is what poetry is supposed to do. Which is why I originally said poetry.

I agree. A perfect language would have to be one versatile enough with all words and parts of speech to express abstract concepts.

 

[metal_wrath]

In situations, yes, a person would need to know if one is talking about a male or female professor. Or a male or female anything. The perfect way to assign genders to things that have no gender is making them neuter. It is not really a burden because all it requires is knowing a simple change of declension.

It is not necessary to have a word for both genders. To further prove my point, the English language does not even use this.

Just for fun:

Person 1: I hate my professor!
Person 2: Sorry, but you need to be more specific. Is this a male or female professor.
Person 1: WTF, why does it matter?
Person 2: It's extremely important actually.
Person 1: ...
Person 1: I hate you!

 

[Blowtus]

In situations, yes, a person would need to know if one is talking about a male or female professor. Or a male or female anything. The perfect way to assign genders to things that have no gender is making them neuter. It is not really a burden because all it requires is knowing a simple change of declension.

So, add two words to the language (male and female) to account for this need, or multiply any word that male or female can refer to by two?

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

My vote is that all nouns are neuter by default, but with the possibility of being appropriately masculinized or feminized via the addition of an affix.

Example:

Instead of having something in English such as:

Neuter - Sibling
Masculine - Brother
Feminine - Sister

Neuter - Parent
Masculine - Father
Feminine - Mother

We do this:

Neuter - Sibli
Masculine - Siblito
Feminine - Sibliti
Other - Sibliter

Neuter - Parin
Masculine - Parinto
Feminine - Parinti
Other - Parinter

 

[metal_wrath]

Esperanto:

amiko - male friend
amikino - female friend

instruisto - male teacher
instruistino - female teacher

frato - brother
fratino - sister

add 'j' to ending to make plural.

 

[hexwind]

My vote is that all nouns are neuter by default, but with the possibility of being appropriately masculinized or feminized via the addition of an affix.

Example:

Instead of having something in English such as:

Neuter - Sibling
Masculine - Brother
Feminine - Sister

Neuter - Parent
Masculine - Father
Feminine - Mother

We do this:

Neuter - Sibli
Masculine - Siblito
Feminine - Sibliti
Other - Sibliter

Neuter - Parin
Masculine - Parinto
Feminine - Parinti
Other - Parinter

Could you give us an example of "others" please?

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

God is a definitive "other."

Also, it could be used for hermaphrodites, or anyone who prefers to be identified as something other than the three traditionally accepted sexes.

 

[Vimana]

So, add two words to the language (male and female) to account for this need, or multiply any word that male or female can refer to by two?

It is not necessary to have a word for both genders. To further prove my point, the English language does not even use this.

It is not really a burden because all it requires is knowing a simple change of declension.

Genders do not get in the way of stuff. Sure, you can always ask what gender it is, sure it isn't always important. But a good language communicates more with less.

God is a definitive "other."

Also, it could be used for hermaphrodites, or anyone who prefers to be identified as something other than the three traditionally accepted sexes.

Or perhaps it could be used if the gender is unknown or undefinable?

 

[hexwind]

Should a perfect language be precise or less complicated? Coz i doubt having both.

 

[Vimana]

A perfect language would have the versatility to do both when needed.

 

[hexwind]

How can a language be precise and simple at the same time? I mean, Arabic is VERY precise but complicated too. For example, there is no just aunt and uncle, there is your father's brother(s) and sister(s) and your mom's, each of them are called differently.

 

[metal_wrath]

Genders do not get in the way of stuff. Sure, you can always ask what gender it is, sure it isn't always important. But a good language communicates more with less.

What? There are only two genders and they apply to humans only. Other than the few words that are gender specific there is no further need for gender in language. Objects should never be separated by some ridiculous gender categories.

Or perhaps it could be used if the gender is unknown or undefinable?

Are you joking? There are only two genders. Period.

 

[Blowtus]

Are you joking? There are only two genders. Period.

Adding 'Period.' to the end of statements doesn't really qualify as adequate justification imho
Gender is in many cases directly linked to sex, but is slowly becoming a hazier, more problematic construct... some label to indicate someone as inhabiting the grey region in the middle seems reasonable.