when writing music, where do you start?

[bball_1523]

I have yet to write my own song and I've been playing for 2.5 years. For those who write their own music, whether simple or technical, where do you guys start? Like do you start by finding chord progressions? Scales? Do you just make up a 10 second riff first then decide how the song will go?

And one more thing, how long do you practice your own riffs/solos for until you make the song?

 

[Liquid Shadow]

All my songs have come from just playing around doing nothing in particular, and then a good idea makes its way out every now and then. I'll make sure I remember that idea (write it down) and then try to build the song off of that, using a combination of intuitive writing (whatever you *feel* should come next) and different musical tricks (hmm...I'll change keys here by doing this, and take this part and develop it like this, ect)

 

[Luis]

If you are not writihng instrumental songs, the first thing you should do is write the vocal melodies.

 

[Liquid Shadow]

Not necessarily. It can work either way. You just need to understand how to make a melody work with the chord progression it goes with. Every melody implies a certain chord progression, so after the melody is done you can create the progression around that melody. Or conversely, you can create a chord progression and then write a melody to fit with it. The latter offers more options in terms of the various possibilities that it presents, but both are effective ways to write songs. Neither one is right or wrong.

 

[MC Pee pants]

What they are talking about is great, but for most people if you're just sitting down to write a song it can be very hard to come up with anything. The longer you think about it, the harder it will become to think of anything. Unless you are unusually gifted at writing it will probably be hard to come up with stuff, so here is my advice to start you out then you can build on it with what they are saying once you have a melody or progression: just write stuff down. If it comes into your head don't analyze it, just write it down. Then when you're done doing all of that you can go back and somewhere in that mess you might find a gem. One little thing that you like, then you can build off of that.

This is where you can start to analyze, otherwise you just feel stuck, because you're saying everything is bad in your brain and never writing it down. I actually learned this in english, my teacher called it a free write and it can work for anything if you're trying to generate ideas. Hope this helped and good luck in your writing endeavors.

 

[Katalepsy]

All my songs have come from just playing around doing nothing in particular, and then a good idea makes its way out every now and then. I'll make sure I remember that idea (write it down) and then try to build the song off of that, using a combination of intuitive writing (whatever you *feel* should come next) and different musical tricks (hmm...I'll change keys here by doing this, and take this part and develop it like this, ect)

Ditto...But you should already know that by now, lol.

 

[arglebargle]

Depends. Usually I come up with some melodies, and try to work them into a specific style. I might think of a motif in my head, and build the song around that. However, where the song actually ends up is anyone's guess, since I have a very haphazard style of songwriting

 

[bball_1523]

do you guys follow a particular songwriting pattern like (intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge/solo, chorus, outro)? Or is it more experimental/progressive or personal?

I kinda hate that traditional pattern of what most mainstream songs do, but then again if the verses are switched around with different melodies and stuff, then it sounds good.

 

[Liquid Shadow]

It works with different songs...some songs are just fine that way, while others work better with more variation.

 

[Katalepsy]

If songwriting isn't really your forte, I would recommend starting off with a set structure to get the hang of it. Just come up with a few riffs and throw em together and specify different riffs as verse, chorus, pre-chorus, bridge, etc based on which part the riff sounds like. But one thing you have to make sure of is that every riff used flows well, or yeah...It won't sound all that great. Good luck!

 

[Pharaoh]

Sure, you have to have some talent and technical ability to apply thoughts and ideas in order to put it all together, but........if it doesn't come straight from your heart and soul, it isn't worth much. Just my advice for you.
(Keep a notepad and / or small recorder at hand all the time for those "moments" of inspiration, because great ideas come spontaneously and can be forgotten quickly and easily) Best wishes to you.

 

[seed2003]

I tend to keep power tab open while im jamming so i can tab it out and have the midi playback for timing and such. But yeah 90% of the stuff i write comes out of no where as a result of taking a sond im learning and tearing it apart to the scale and messing with it. As far as solos go i improvise lol

 

[Katalepsy]

I tend to keep power tab open while im jamming so i can tab it out and have the midi playback for timing and such.

That's pretty much what I do, but I use Guitar Pro 4.1.0...It helps A LOT

 

[SyXified]

Using those midi programs can be a huge help in writing a song, especially if you are doing a lot of layers and harmonies and want to hear them over eachother.

A lot of writing style is of course personal, so the only 2 things I can advise are.

1. If you want to write a song, instead of sitting there and puzzling over it and scrapping things because you are getting frustrated with their lack of progress, just start writing and keep writing. Even if a piece turns out like crap in the end you gained some experience and learned a few things NOT to do, which can be just as valuable as what to do. It's not like you have a limit on how many songs you can write, or as if you have to be judged on everything you write, it's always at your discression what to do with a song, so jump in and start trying things out, it's the only way to learn.

2. NEVER start with lyrics. if you have a set of lyrics and try to write a song around them, it's going to sound forced and foolish and accents will be in weird places. I know a lot of emo/punk/pop people love to write some crap that 'poured out of their soul' and then force it into a song, but that's just a really bad way of doing things. If your leads, progressions, vocal melodies, whatever come first that's fine, but starting with lyrics is a great way to have a song that no one will like. Lyrics should fit the music and flow of the vocal melodies and so if you have vocal melodies to a progression, lyrics and lyrical content come naturally. You also understand where cadences fall better so you don't have a word being cut off or accented strangly, which is painfully apparent when done.

 

[NegativeVolume]

Well, whenever I want to write a song, it's usually an idea from just noodling around. Play some crap, find a few chords that I like, and take it from there. See what goes with it, and I ALWAYS write my ideas down. Sometimes I get a few ideas that were written in a year span, and they work beautifully together. And I'm always doing chords. I find it easier personally to do that, but I have done it the other way, starting with a melody and building chords off of it. It'll take probably time to get down a method that works for you, but the payoff is well worth a piece of art you've created.

 

[Granskog]

I have yet to write my own song and I've been playing for 2.5 years. For those who write their own music, whether simple or technical, where do you guys start? Like do you start by finding chord progressions? Scales? Do you just make up a 10 second riff first then decide how the song will go?

And one more thing, how long do you practice your own riffs/solos for until you make the song?

VERY good thread!

Im in the same situation; i think it is really important to be original and not copy others, but when it comes to writing i never really get anything done. i allways find that either the stuff sounds too much like someone elses work or doesnt sound good at all. and just waiting for something to "pop up" doesnt really work.
some of the stuff ive done do sound pretty decent, but i guess im too hard on myself. its better to write a song, even though it sounds pretty mediocre and is pretty similar to something else, than to not write anything at all. you have to crawl before you can run...

i guess that didnt help you at all, but...

 

[OfSinsAndShred]

I always hear music in my head when I'm in the shower. Or mowing the grass. No joke. Or sometimes I have a certain kind of song I just really want to write, such as "Why don't I have an Yngwie ripoff song? All the other neoclassical fans do," or, "A really metally guitar duet would be sweet."

Usually I get a riff or melody with a chord progression. Then I think "Okay, do I want to keep this mood, switch it up a bit? If I were listening to this song, what would come next to make it awesome!" and try to think of what I would like to hear in this particular song.

And I'm a big fan of intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-solo-chorus-outro... it works great! Make sure you don't deny it just to be "progressive" - it's so common because it works so well. Shit, a ton of Symphony X's stuff is like that, with a slow section before the solo, the solo section is a key/guitar duel, and crazy unison right after the key solo... Smoke and Mirrors, Evolution, Fallen, Damnation Game, Orion, they all pretty closely follow this structure.

Lyrics... I'm not too big on lyrics. Most of my stuff that I make on my own is instrumental, and the stuff with my band has lyrics written by our singer, mostly.

I love writing solos. I just improvise over the rhythm parts for the solo section like a million times, until I can do it without thinking about it. Then I eventually get things like a beginning I really like, and a lick that works really well with it, and keep building and keeping the things I like, and throwing away the crap. Usually takes me about a month of playing the song before I have a solo I play the same every time.

Good thread. Makes me wanna go write a song, since I just pretended I knew what I was talking about concerning songwriting for a whole post.

 

[SyXified]

I love writing solos. I just improvise over the rhythm parts for the solo section like a million times, until I can do it without thinking about it. Then I eventually get things like a beginning I really like, and a lick that works really well with it, and keep building and keeping the things I like, and throwing away the crap. Usually takes me about a month of playing the song before I have a solo I play the same every time.

I completely agree with that style of writing solos. When you improv, you get an intimate and natural connection with the song. You trust your instincts as to what mood to create and so you get a product that sounds like it belongs as part of the song, rather than just a solo that could be transplanted into any given song. Also, when you improv over a new riff, you find yourself doing things you never did before and if you can catch it and remember, you get somthing unique to add to your repitoire.

However, keeping a completely improved take is very rarely going to yield the best product. Chances are in any given improv you will do some things you like and some you don't, and moreover, some things you play the way you wanted to and others you played sloppy or with the wrong feel/accents. The process of finding little snipits you really like from improv and slowly building a foundation until a solo is written, but stems from improv, has always suited me as the best way to compose a solo that is meaningful to the piece, interesting and adventurous, and all up to the composers satisfaction level.

 

[Liquid Shadow]

/\ Agreed

 

[buscatesoros]

Warning: User's first post.

Well, what I do is similar to what others have already said: I get together with my keyboard player, and we improvise a lot - with Guitar Pro open in my computer - until something nice comes along. We tab it, and make a song out of it.

I suck at solo composing, I always seem to work with the same 2 or 3 scales and don't really know how to sweep correctly so that limits my options. We have around 3 songs finished and my solos all sound different from each other, but if we compose more songs I'm going to repeat myself a lot (moral of the story: learn how to freakin' sweep).

My writing process goes a little bit like this:

Find main riff --> Try to come up with 2 or 3 similar riffs for filling/chorus/bridge purposes --> Structure the song (not always the same way, some are very tradidional following the intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/solo/chorus/outro, and some are very weird) --> Write vocal melody --> Write lyrics --> Write solo.

Hope that helps