Who asked about Loki again?

Tyra

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Sorry, can't remember which one of you asked about this, but in an earlier thread (that needs not be revived) there was a discussion about what Loki looked like (if he was has a dark complexion, or if that is just the artist's interpretation of things). I found the following excerpt from the Prose Edda, which clearly says he's fair:

"There is one tallied amoung the Æsir, whom some call the strife-bearing Ás and the most seductive-speaking, and a blemish on all gods and men. This one is named Loki or Lopt, son of Farbauti the etin; his mother is Laufey or Nál; his brothers, they are Býleist and Helblind. Loki is beautiful and fair in seeming, ill in character, very variable in manners; he has that speech, known as slyness, far from other men, and wiles for all lots; he came always to the Æsir in hard times, but he often had the best rede in the end. His wife is hight Sigyn; their son is Nari or Narfi."

This is Snorri's version of events, as usual, and he's misinterpreted a few things before, but for what it's worth, there it is. T.
 
What here is misinterpreted? I would like to know seeing as how I speak only english and cannot find out for myself if the sources I read from are accurate.
 
Well, not necessarily here, it's just that Snorri was a Christian monk who wrote these things down a long time after the Scandinavian countries had been christianized. On a few occasions one can tell that he's misinterpreted the texts in the sense that he's applied Christian logic and culture to pre-christian events and culture. On a few other occasions, his version of events do not match those given in other sources, and sometimes we can assume that whoever told him the story, may have told it differently from how it was originally told, and so on. It is with this text as with a lot of other sources we have about the Norse culture, hard to know what is fact, fiction, misinterpretation and political agenda purposfully meant to discredit the heathens.
 
I asked about it. Helblind, that's a nice name, could it be that the guy has seeing problems? Anyways, fair can mean light or beatiful, but then again he's probably of light complexion because it would probably say otherwise if it was not so. Maybe.
 
i read the giants are dark coloured and the gods are fair.

isnt Loki 100% giant race?

also when i read about Heimdal VS Loki in Ragnarök its often descibed as Light VS Darkness, the white God vs the Dark God etc...

yeah there are so many versions and different interpretations... so i guess we'll always find counter examples.
 
Celtik Militia said:
i read the giants are dark coloured and the gods are fair.

isnt Loki 100% giant race?

also when i read about Heimdal VS Loki in Ragnarök its often descibed as Light VS Darkness, the white God vs the Dark God etc...

yeah there are so many versions and different interpretations... so i guess we'll always find counter examples.


For example, counter to your examples is the fact that Loki was born in a flash of light (hurled lightning bolt) and that would kind of explain the bright skin tone.
 
Well because he is a norseman "god" and because we're light, and if someone is dark he's usually called Blank the Dark/Black, we can kind of take it for granted that he too is of fair complexion. And in the case of Snorre and his contemporaries who bring some christian influence into the legends, if any changes were too be made to the appearance of Loki, they probably would have made him look dark because to them it seemed that he was he evil god of the pagans.
 
Well, there's also Loki the Red (Raudi)... Loki is sometimes said to be the son of X and Y, and sometimes Z and A (can't remember the names just now,but one was a woman named Naal ((Needle)) and the other dad, besides from the one mentioned above, was a giant, I think). There are, in other words, two mothers and two fathers to choose from depending on who you ask. Most of the possible options give him a 50% giant, 50% good bloodline. I think his job is to be half-half, but that's just my personal opinion.
 
Well, whatever the personalities of the Norse gods and goddesses may be on a personal level, in the SAGAS, like in any other religious story, they often get to take on "jobs" or personalities to explain a certain event or fenomenon. They take on archetypical personalities, I guess you can say, so that everyone can see themselves in one of them, thus making difficult concepts more easily understood. Get what I mean by that? I think most people have a good side and a bad side. It's Loki's job to remind us of that.
 
About loki:

Loki, the son of 2 giants, was the trickster god in Norse mythology who was always doing his best to cause trouble. His wife was Sigyn, who bore him 2 sons, Vali & Nari (or Narvi), though he had an affair with the giantess, Angrboda, who bore him Fenrir, Hel, & Jormungand.

The Theft of Idun's Apples
In one story, Loki aids in the theft of Idun's Apples, which insure that the gods don't age. One day, Odin, Loki, & Honir crossed into Midgard for the day but had not brought any food with them. Loki decided to hunt & kill an ox, but when they tried to cook the meat, it remained raw. An eagle from above told them if they let him eat his fill, the meat would cook & they would be able to eat it. They agreed, but Loki was very hungry & soon grew impatient. He rammed his staff into the bird's body, so that the bird dropped the meat, but Loki was unable to let go of his staff. The eagle took off & flew just close enough to the ground to drag Loki across Midgard's floor, & only stopped when Loki agreed to bring Idun & her apples out of Asgard. Loki realized that the eagle was a giant in disguise, & agreed to the task.

Loki found Idun & convinced her that he had found a tree that grew apples similar to hers just outside of Bifrost. She followed him out of Asgard, only to find the giant Thiazi in the form of an eagle, who promptly carried her & her apples away. When Idun didn't arrive to give the gods her apples, they became anxious & began to grow old. They, however, did realize that Loki was missing from their company, & suspected that he was somehow responsible for this fate. Odin summoned Loki, who explained how the eagle would not let him go unless he agreed to bring Idun out of Asgard. Odin then threatened that if Loki did not help return Idun, they would kill him.

Loki agreed to Odin's request if Freyja would lend him her falcon skin. She gave it to him, & he flew to Thiazi's home in Thrymheim, where he discovered Idun. He then changed Idun into a nut & carried her off. Meanwhile, Thiazi, who had been on a fishing trip with his daughter, Skadi, came home to find Idun missing. He knew someone must have helped her escape, so he began flying & soon caught up with Loki as he drew closer to Asgard. Odin was watching all of this & told the gods to take all the fire wood shavings they could fire out of Asgard & pile it as high as they could. After Loki had successfully past over Asgard's wall, they lit the shavings. Thiazi could not stop himself, flew into the fire, & dropped to the ground in torment, where the gods quickly killed him. Loki then changed Idun back & she offered the gods her apples.

The Treasures of the Gods
Another of Loki’s pranks was to cut off Thor’s wife, Sif’s hair while she was sleeping & left it in a pile on her bedroom floor. When she awoke & realized what had happened, she immediately knew only Loki could have done it. To make up for it, Loki promised to replace her hair with help from the dwarfs. Thor threatened that he had better or he would smash every bone in Loki’s body.

Loki made his way to the land of the dark elves & sought out the sons of Ivaldi. He explained that he needed them to spin gold as fine as Sif’s hair & imbue it with magic so that it would grow on her head. In return, he promised them the thanks of Sif & Thor, & all the friendship of the gods. The dwarfs agreed to the bargain, & created the hair. They then decided that it would be foolish to waste the fire, so they created a ship for Freyr called Skidbladnir that could be dismantled until they were no larger than a piece of cloth, & a spear for Odin called Gungnir that would never miss its mark. Loki thanked them & made his way back.

On his way, he had an idea to visit the dwarf brothers Brokk & Eitri. He showed them his treasures & challenged them to make something of finer craftsmanship. He told them he would stake his head on it. The dwarf brothers were eager to take up the challenge. They created a boar with bristles of gold for Freyr called Gullinbursti that could outrun any horse & was always surrounded by a brilliant light, an arm-ring of solid gold for Odin called Draupnir that would drop 8 rings of its own weight on every 9th night, & an iron hammer for Thor called Mjollnir that could never be broken & would always return when thrown.

Brokk then accompanied Loki to Asgard to have the gifts judged by the gods. Odin, Thor, & Freyr were quick to agree that Mjollnir was the most valuable because it alone could guard the gods against the giants. Brokk then attempted to claim Loki’s head. Loki retorted that he had promised his head, but not any part of his neck. Brokk replied that in that case, he could at least sew Loki’s lips together to stop his ‘sweet talk.’

Brokk ended up using his brothers awl because his own knife was not sharp enough to pierce Loki’s lips. Once completed, Loki ran out of Gladsheim & ripped the leather thong out of his lips.


The Death of Balder & Binding of Loki
The most famous story concerning Loki is his role in the death of Odin & Frigg’s son, Balder. Balder began to have dreams of terrible things happening to him. Odin disguised himself as Vegtam, son of Valtam, & entered Hel to seek out a seeress to interpret the meaning of the dreams. The seeress explained that the dreams meant someone would soon kill Balder.

Alarmed at the prophecy, Frigg traveled throughout the 9 worlds to get each & every substance to swear an oath that it would not harm Balder. Everything she asked agreed, & the gods tested this by casting a pebble at Balder, who admitted that he couldn’t even feel it.

Soon, the gods tried other tests such as throwing darts or stones at him, hitting him with axes & slashing him with swords. Nothing harmed him. This soon became a game among the gods, who rejoiced that nothing could harm him.

Loki, however, watched in disgust. He grew envious of Balder, & refused to take part in the games. Then, one afternoon, an idea occurred to him. When he was sure that no one was watching, he changed himself into an old woman & went to seek information from Frigg. Once there, the old woman began to question why they were stoning a man outside. Frigg explained that it was a game, & that nothing could hurt Balder. After awhile, she grew irritated with the old woman’s inquiries, & finally mentioned that only one thing did not swear an oath not to harm Balder, the mistletoe.

Thrilled that he had finally found something that could harm Balder, Loki quickly made his way west of Valhalla & grabbed some mistletoe. He then sharpened one end of it & carried it back to Gladsheim, where the gods were so caught up in their game that they did not notice Loki come back in. Loki looked around & noticed Balder’s brother, Hod, who was blind, standing aside. He went up to him and asked why he wasn’t participating in the game. Hod replied because he couldn’t see where Balder was, nor did he have a weapon to throw at him.

Loki then gave Hod the mistletoe & guided his arm. It struck Balder, pierced him, & passed right threw him. Balder fell on his face, dead. The gods looked around & knew only Loki could be responsible.

After much weeping, Frigg asked if anyone would be willing to travel to Hel & beg for Balder’s life. Odin’s son, Hermod stepped forward, & was soon off. For 9 nights he rode until he reached the underworld & met with Hel. He told her of the grief of the gods & asked Hel to let Balder return with him. Hel told him that if everything in the nine worlds, both dead and alive, would weep for Balder, she would return him to Asgard, but if even one thing would not mourn, Balder must stay in Niflheim. Hermod then left the underworld & told everyone at Gladsheim what had been said to him.

The Aesir sent messengers to everything throughout the 9 worlds asking them to weep for Balder. Everything they asked wept. As they were making their way back to Asgard, they came across the giantess, Thokk, sitting in a cave. They asked her to weep, but she refused. The messengers left mournfully, knowing that Thokk was actually Loki.

After some time went by after Balder’s death, Loki realized that his days in Asgard had come to an end. He fled to a deserted part of Midgard near Franang’s Falls & built himself a house with 4 doors, one in every direction so that he could keep watch in every direction. One evening, he heard voices coming, so he quickly put out his fire, turned himself into a salmon, & slid into Franang’s Falls. Unfortunately for Loki, when Odin sat in Hlidskjalf, nothing escaped his sight. Odin quickly sent a party of gods from Asgard to capture him.

Thor & the others dropped a net into the Falls & weighted it down with stones so that nothing could swim under it. Loki attempted to jump over the net, but Thor caught the salmon & would not let go.

As punishment, Thor & one group of gods led Loki to a cave while another party went in pursuit of his two sons, Vali & Narvi. They changed Vali into a wolf & watched as he ripped Narvi’s body apart before running away towards Jotunheim. They then took Narvi’s entrails & made their way to the cave. Loki was promptly bound to a rock using Narvi’s entrails, which became as hard as iron. Then Skadi positioned a snake above Loki so that its venom would drip into his face. There the gods left him.

Loki’s wife, Sigyn, stayed behind holding a bowl over Loki’s face to catch the venom. Whenever it is full, she carries it away & empties it into a rock basin. Loki is then left unguarded & the poison splashes into his face.

It is here Loki will remain until Ragnarok when Loki will be freed. He will then meet Heimdall, & each will kill the other.

i think that clears some stuff :)
 
Yes, Halvblind means Halfblind, which has sometimes been interpreted as Loki being Odin's brother.
It is more or less obvious how Snorri has interpreted the Eddas in a skewed fashion depending on which translation you read, and inspeciffically in regards to Loki. That's why you have to look to other texts to get more information about him if you are interested, as a lot of translations quite simply leave out parts of Snorri's narrative. When you look at other sources, there are lots of interesting things to read that quite often conflict with Snorri's interpretaton of the stories.
Loki's mother is Laufey (see Lokasenna 52 and Þrymskviða 18 and 20 ), which supposedly means "leaf island". She is sometimes said to be Nál, which means the needle of a conifer tree. (There is no conflict with this being an alternate name for Laufey.)
Only Sigyn is listed as Loki's wife by Snorri, but as far as I remember, Loki has children with four women: Sigyn (in Haustlöng 7, Þórsdrápa 3 , Völuspá 35, and Lokasenna); Angrboða (in Völuspá); Svaðilfar and Týr's wife (in Lokasenna 40 ), and in addition to these ladies, Loki claims several other lovers in Lokasenna: Freyja, Skaði, Sif and Frigg (maybe).
From these affairs, Loki has at least five or six children: Hel (described as Loki's daughter in Ynglingatál ), the Fenris-wolf and the Miðgarðserpent, Narfi (aka Vali), Sleipnir and Ali.
It's up to each one of us to decide which source to trust, I guess. Complicated as Hel, in any case.
 
man you study norse mythology in school? thats awsome.

in france we only get a little roman/greek mythology, but especially egyptian mythology (yeah thats weird.. i guess thats cause we study egyptian civilisation in sixth grade cause france was the first country to study all that. archeologically (?)).
 
I'm happy we gotr to study it in Sweden, and I'm also happy for the sessions about the greek gods and the egyåtian ones to i suppose. But what about the slvic onesP? I know absolutely nil about them. Could anyone give me an introduction? And how come you dont study gaelic gods in France?