why are some people

[solphilcox]

IMO tolerance of 'faith' or doctrine on any level just serves to enable/validate the fundamentalists. the idea that one must 'respect' other people's shitty beliefs is the reason the demise of christianity has been so prolonged and drawn out over the last century when really it should have gone out with child labor.

i really really really can't wait until enough generations die to where the religious are officially the ostracized weirdo minority and get treated as such.

 

[drew_drummer]

Question.

Do you have kids?

He's got a few in his basement, yarr.

 

[Cryo114]

A lot of religion is culturally engrained. So it's not so much of a choice, more something that you do and as such I don't really believe that the vast majority of people who claim to be religious really are religious. It's just a tribe label that goes/went with being born in a certain place at a certain time. Religion can give a sense of belonging and a sense of security which some people genuinely need to get by in life.

I respect atheism and some atheists are inevitably going to speak about how much better they believe it is to be an atheist rather than religious, but when they do you never hear mention of how beneficial belief or faith can be. For example, very few would be willing to say alcoholics anonymous is insane or stupid even though the use of a belief in a higher power is fairly central.

Fundamentally, religions are just an idea about how a person relates to the world in which we live. It's a system of thought and a very complex and diverse one that is intrinsically related to human nature. Remove religion and see if mobs don't find another excuse to dominate, control and terrorize people.

Beliefs are largely just social conventions that are powerful because of our desire to be part of a group, definable as being one by a goal or opinion or situation it's members share.

But yeah, some teachings are plain mean and need to be challenged. Just don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[xFkx]

A lot of religion is culturally engrained. So it's not so much of a choice, more something that you do and as such I don't really believe that the vast majority of people who claim to be religious really are religious. It's just a tribe label that goes/went with being born in a certain place at a certain time. Religion can give a sense of belonging and a sense of security which some people genuinely need to get by in life.

I respect atheism and some atheists are inevitably going to speak about how much better they believe it is to be an atheist rather than religious, but when they do you never hear mention of how beneficial belief or faith can be. For example, very few would be willing to say alcoholics anonymous is insane or stupid even though the use of a belief in a higher power is fairly central.

Fundamentally, religions are just an idea about how a person relates to the world in which we live. It's a system of thought and a very complex and diverse one that is intrinsically related to human nature. Remove religion and see if mobs don't find another excuse to dominate, control and terrorize people.

Beliefs are largely just social conventions that are powerful because of our desire to be part of a group, definable as being one by a goal or opinion or situation it's members share.

But yeah, some teachings are plain mean and need to be challenged. Just don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Yup, good points. All in all, the endless debates and arguments can't be really resolved, I mean eventually everyone will encounter the truth at the moment of their demise, and until then I don't really care if someone interprets the world way or another on a personal level, and I understand that for some people faith is highly beneficial

The real world issue is to try to make the religious groups stop blowing shit up, killing non-believers, messing with politics, hampering scientific progres, etc.

 

[Cryo114]

The real world issue is to try to make the religious groups stop blowing shit up, killing non-believers, messing with politics, hampering scientific progres, etc.

I agree with everything except for the politics. If a politician is elected on the basis of there views which are influenced by religion then it's there job to represent the voters in a democracy.

Unless you meant lobbying, which is something I don't really understand.

 

[xFkx]

I agree with everything except for the politics. If a politician is elected on the basis of there views which are influenced by religion then it's there job to represent the voters in a democracy.

Unless you meant lobbying, which is something I don't really understand.

Yeah, more or less, it's like here when the state sells ground or property to the church for next to nothing, or even gives it for free, bishops can pull a lot of string, and boy does this ever piss me off...

could've been a swimming pool, a recreational area, whatever... NOPE... it's going to be another church.

fuck that

 

[Mutant]

The best "weapon" against religious fundamentalism is education.
It was proven many times that the most dangerous ideas are most easily passed to young uneducated minds.

 

[anotherpaul]

How is the disproof of a god any more bullshit than the proof of a god?

This approach is ultimately wrong. Talk about that invisible dragon in my garage.
If there is no way to get evidence that would contradict the the given theory, this theory just doesn't make any sense and is non-scientific.

could've been a swimming pool, a recreational area, whatever... NOPE... it's going to be another church.

Exactly.

 

[AD Chaos]

Politics is just another form of religion (in disguise) where 'god' is the State.

 

[egan.]

All we are is dust in the wind, dude.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

most christians. pretty fucked!

You know the majority of christians? Man, you know a fuck load of people.

The minority tends to be the loudest most of the time by the way, not the majority.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

IMO tolerance of 'faith' or doctrine on any level just serves to enable/validate the fundamentalists. the idea that one must 'respect' other people's shitty beliefs is the reason the demise of christianity has been so prolonged and drawn out over the last century when really it should have gone out with child labor.

i really really really can't wait until enough generations die to where the religious are officially the ostracized weirdo minority and get treated as such.

IMO coming out and attacking a group of people for what they believe or don't believe makes you an asshole.

 

[Jind]

IMO coming out and attacking a group of people for what they believe or don't believe makes you an asshole.

Either that or just a fascist - asshole? fascist? one or the other. Slight sarcasm intended.

Listen - I'm neither religious nor an outright atheist - probably more agnostic than anything in as I just don't care nor do I let it impact the choices I make or the way I see the world. My only "moral code" is my own and almost entirely based upon trying to live some form of a just life (mind you - my definition of "just" is not a religious one - more based upon the golden rule of treating others as I would hope to be treated myself). It really is as simple as that.

My favorite quote is one by Dr. Viktor E Frankl:

"Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of human freedoms to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."

I look at it as ones reaction to any given circumstance - the idea of free will and what we do with ithat defines us, our meaning - it's the only one true thing we control, our reactions. Dr. Frankl was specifically referencing to how we react in the face of unchangeable suffering. He has said that every person is spiritual in nature (in the search for assigning meaning to everything), but not in the religious sense of the term - it's human nature to search for meaning in all things including themselves and meaning cannot be assigned to others.

What we can control and what we can influence? Unfortunately the only thing we can control as individuals is our reaction to any situation. We can certainly attempt to influence others to see that situation as we do, but in the end as an individual they will find their own reaction, their own meaning that may be different form the one we came to.

It's this simple idea that drives my idea of "tolerance". I can disagree with anyone all I want, I can attempt to sway their way of thinking, their beliefs by sharing mine, but in the end it's out of my control. The effort of influencing others is certainly worth taking, but a certain acceptance in the possibility, even probability of them having a different reaction is just as valid a response.

I used this quote in another thread earlier and it might just fit into the idea of tolerance being discussed:

“You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole.”

“You run into assholes all day, you’re the asshole.”

By the way - it's a line offered up in this seasons premier of Justified on FX by Raylan to a bail jumper he has recently apprehended.

As always, individual mileage may vary.