I'm just wondering why people replace drums, rather than just using an electronic kit in the first case, would this not be easier? If you wanted live cymbals you could always just mic up live cymbals with an electronic kit for the drums.
Why drum replacement?
- Thread starter Devon8822
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JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
You do realize that 9 times out of 10 replacement is because the source sucks? You still want bleed in the OH/room mics from the real shells.
outbreak525
Member
- Jun 15, 2010
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I mean if you're gonna mic up a drumset, you better do it right.
Otherwise why waste the time, program that shit.
Otherwise why waste the time, program that shit.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
^^Because even heavily edited, poorly mic'd natural drums still sound better than programmed drums in a lot of peoples opinions.
RedDog
Humanoid typhoon
I always thought it was a consistency thing. Sample the kit, record the takes as tight as you can get them, edit, sample reinforcement. On bedroom warrior budget, you should still be able to get something workable.
Melb_shredder
Orpheus: Melodic Death
Yeh I figure a lot of this as well. Wasn't it Colin Richardson saying even the tightest drummer in today's metal scene still needs some replacing purely for consistency and control? I've had a few times where I've been lucky with a good source. But I've still used SOME replacement on them
In the past year, I've gotten away from "replacement" as a norm 70% of the time. Now, 100% of the time (on tracks I actually recorded) I'm using the real kit, augmented with samples. The samples are either throughout the song, bur buried beneath the natural drums, or they come in and out of the mix if/when needed. Augmentation and replacement are very different.
By the way, I think my weakest-sounding natural drumkit sounds better than my best-sample-replaced kit.
By the way, I think my weakest-sounding natural drumkit sounds better than my best-sample-replaced kit.
Monsterbash333
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im going to start replacing for a few reasons . ( keep in mind that im a home studio, on a budget, with a day job)
for one ive lost bands on the fact that i could only type midi drums for the longest time.
this is because most drummers/ bands feel the need to actually hit a fucking drum to feel like the recording is legit. ( this can branch off into so many other things though)
another reason being that i dont want to have to sit with the drummer and have him explain to me how a fill goes by beating the fuck out of my desk, and his legs, while humming shitty mouth cymbals.
another reason is what jefftd said. I still want the bleed of the shells in my overheads.
and last reason is i dont have the funds to purchase an electric kit worth a shit to use for recording. so id rather just have them bring their kit mic it up, and sound replace it. especially if in the end the drums will be the same as taping on an electric kit. ( and you never know, sometimes you may come across a decent sounding drum and want to blend it with the sample you are using to replace)
for one ive lost bands on the fact that i could only type midi drums for the longest time.
this is because most drummers/ bands feel the need to actually hit a fucking drum to feel like the recording is legit. ( this can branch off into so many other things though)
another reason being that i dont want to have to sit with the drummer and have him explain to me how a fill goes by beating the fuck out of my desk, and his legs, while humming shitty mouth cymbals.
another reason is what jefftd said. I still want the bleed of the shells in my overheads.
and last reason is i dont have the funds to purchase an electric kit worth a shit to use for recording. so id rather just have them bring their kit mic it up, and sound replace it. especially if in the end the drums will be the same as taping on an electric kit. ( and you never know, sometimes you may come across a decent sounding drum and want to blend it with the sample you are using to replace)
botus99
Microphone Assassin
Sometimes it's better to ask "why not?"
If you use sample replacing/augmenting long enough, you begin to understand the hows, whys, and whens to use it. Samples are merely another tool in the toolbox, and when their the right tool for the job, well...
If you use sample replacing/augmenting long enough, you begin to understand the hows, whys, and whens to use it. Samples are merely another tool in the toolbox, and when their the right tool for the job, well...
Monsterbash333
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it's cause most drummers have shitty kits/heads, but don't know it
most drummers also suck at drums, but don't know it
drums also frequently get mic'ed in shitty rooms, with shitty gear, and by shitty "engineers" like myself who think they know what the hell they're doing, when nothing could be further from the truth
all in all, it takes a whole dickload of investment - in terms of time, money, and knowledge - to get usable, natural drum tracks...and for that majority of cases where shit comes up short, that's where samples come in - either for total replacement, or augmentation
most drummers also suck at drums, but don't know it
drums also frequently get mic'ed in shitty rooms, with shitty gear, and by shitty "engineers" like myself who think they know what the hell they're doing, when nothing could be further from the truth
all in all, it takes a whole dickload of investment - in terms of time, money, and knowledge - to get usable, natural drum tracks...and for that majority of cases where shit comes up short, that's where samples come in - either for total replacement, or augmentation
Kalapuikko
Kuru
I'm in a middle of drum tracking session for an album, and I can tell already that I will keep the toms 100% natural, maybe even the kick! The drummer has feet consistent as fuck (never recorded anyone like him, every kick hit even in double bass parts comes hard and with same velocity) and great sounding kit. The only thing I may have to reinforce with samples is the snare, for two reasons. His hits aren't always as hard as they could be, and the snare isn't very deep so we had to tune it really high to make it come alive, so I'll probably add meat with some other sample. I wont replace it totally, of course.
As it has been said, coming up with great natural drum sound comes from a lot of factors, and if even one of those fails you're pretty much fucked up. Great drummer, great kit in tune with new heads, good room, miced properly.
The tuning of the snare has been bit of a pain in the ass also, first two recording days the tune kept going flat and I had to bring it back up a lot. Luckily I had Tune-Bot! That thing may be one of the best purchases I have done related to audio. After tuning the toms with that.. Sweet. The look on the drummers face was priceless.
As it has been said, coming up with great natural drum sound comes from a lot of factors, and if even one of those fails you're pretty much fucked up. Great drummer, great kit in tune with new heads, good room, miced properly.
The tuning of the snare has been bit of a pain in the ass also, first two recording days the tune kept going flat and I had to bring it back up a lot. Luckily I had Tune-Bot! That thing may be one of the best purchases I have done related to audio. After tuning the toms with that.. Sweet. The look on the drummers face was priceless.
Genius Gone Insane
http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com
In addition to the above comments, tom, kick, and snare hits show up in your overhead microphones. So if you were to use an electronic kit, the clicking sounds from hitting the plastic would go into your mix. Maybe this is a good effect sometimes but most AEs wouldn't want to mess with that.
That being said, I've had some good luck programming tom hits into a drum machine's room sound output. That actually works real well but it can be a pain in the ass.
That being said, I've had some good luck programming tom hits into a drum machine's room sound output. That actually works real well but it can be a pain in the ass.
TRUIE
Member
It doesn't sound that bad if you need a mechanical feel, but I won't do that for everything.
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I highly doubt that Dirk Verbeuren needs some replacement to get a consistent and controlled sound. Okay, he's an alien...
I've recorded an e-kit of shells and mic'ed real overheads a few times so far... the clicking can't be heard in a mix, not even during a solo drum part. The shell samples will be MUCH louder than the bleed of the e-kit tapping in the OH mics.
