Enemy242
Member
zmetallica
Member
OMFG KICK SAMPLES R TEH sux0rs. he wnats eletron1c samples of weird synth snds that add FXs and sound like they are from sci-fi movies.
this poster does not like the over use of kick drum sampling in today's music, specifically the new nevermore album. he wants electronic sound samples synth sounds for a background atmospheric effect.
^just in case you didn't understand me the first time.
this poster does not like the over use of kick drum sampling in today's music, specifically the new nevermore album. he wants electronic sound samples synth sounds for a background atmospheric effect.
^just in case you didn't understand me the first time.
"there old hack things, done for death metal yrs ago"
really.. interesting... but incorrect. the use of samples on drum kits wasn't "invented" for death metal.. the technique wasn't even first used for death metal.. nor, during the entire history of replacing/augmenting drums with samples has death metal ever been the only genre the technique has been used in. it's a tool, nothing more, nothing less... a tool that has been and will likely continue to be used in every genre of muisc in which drum kits are a feature.... like any other tool in a producer's lexicon it can be overused, or just not done well, but this happens in every genre. why "trigger" kicks if the real kick sounds fine? there are many reasons that MAY come up.. first one has to answer some questions, like: Does the drummer play with consistent dynamics? Are the 4 layers of rhythm guitar and hammering bass in most metal mixes going to allow an inconsistently struck kick drum to cut properly through a mix? Will that inconsistently struck kick properly hold down the low end of your mix as it should? ... if one is honest and ends up answering "no" to even one of these, then he may be looking at a good case for at least enhancing a mix with a kick sample blended in with the original one. next question is, does using a sample mean one has to go buy a pre-made batch of samples on CD ROM or some sample unit, e.g. an Alesis dm5 or d4? in a word, no, one doesn't... one of the best sources for samples is from the drummer's own kit.. the engineer simply has the drummer strike the kick at several different velocities at the top of a session and records those hits... later, there's the sample(s) should they be needed to even out dynamics.
and hey.. if you're going to complain about samples, why not complain about all the other things producers do to make bands sound better... like:
Auto-tuning vocals.... hey, why not leave out of tune vox in, eh? or, EQ?.. hey, just get the tone right off the bat from the amps and drums and voice, etc., to hell with EQ... and on, and on , and on..
..and hey, while we're at it, put down that distortion pedal! i mean, if you can't get the gain you need from your amp then it must suck , or you are a sissy. right?
it should be easy to see where this type of thread/subject leads: nowhere fast. Only for the simple reason that there is no cut and dried answer... just more questions.. but there is one question that engineers can always ask themselves that will work every time: "will adding a sample to this drum part make it sound better in the mix?"... if the answer is yes, for whatever reason, (such as poor playing, poor recording, or even if it's just that the guitars are very heavy) then the sample should be used. And that is why the blending/replacement of drums with samples is still around, in every genre with drums. And will be for a long, long time.
really.. interesting... but incorrect. the use of samples on drum kits wasn't "invented" for death metal.. the technique wasn't even first used for death metal.. nor, during the entire history of replacing/augmenting drums with samples has death metal ever been the only genre the technique has been used in. it's a tool, nothing more, nothing less... a tool that has been and will likely continue to be used in every genre of muisc in which drum kits are a feature.... like any other tool in a producer's lexicon it can be overused, or just not done well, but this happens in every genre. why "trigger" kicks if the real kick sounds fine? there are many reasons that MAY come up.. first one has to answer some questions, like: Does the drummer play with consistent dynamics? Are the 4 layers of rhythm guitar and hammering bass in most metal mixes going to allow an inconsistently struck kick drum to cut properly through a mix? Will that inconsistently struck kick properly hold down the low end of your mix as it should? ... if one is honest and ends up answering "no" to even one of these, then he may be looking at a good case for at least enhancing a mix with a kick sample blended in with the original one. next question is, does using a sample mean one has to go buy a pre-made batch of samples on CD ROM or some sample unit, e.g. an Alesis dm5 or d4? in a word, no, one doesn't... one of the best sources for samples is from the drummer's own kit.. the engineer simply has the drummer strike the kick at several different velocities at the top of a session and records those hits... later, there's the sample(s) should they be needed to even out dynamics.
and hey.. if you're going to complain about samples, why not complain about all the other things producers do to make bands sound better... like:
Auto-tuning vocals.... hey, why not leave out of tune vox in, eh? or, EQ?.. hey, just get the tone right off the bat from the amps and drums and voice, etc., to hell with EQ... and on, and on , and on..
..and hey, while we're at it, put down that distortion pedal! i mean, if you can't get the gain you need from your amp then it must suck , or you are a sissy. right?
it should be easy to see where this type of thread/subject leads: nowhere fast. Only for the simple reason that there is no cut and dried answer... just more questions.. but there is one question that engineers can always ask themselves that will work every time: "will adding a sample to this drum part make it sound better in the mix?"... if the answer is yes, for whatever reason, (such as poor playing, poor recording, or even if it's just that the guitars are very heavy) then the sample should be used. And that is why the blending/replacement of drums with samples is still around, in every genre with drums. And will be for a long, long time.
James Murphy said:Auto-tuning vocals.... hey, why not leave out of tune vox in, eh? or, EQ?.. hey, just get the tone right off the bat from the amps and drums and voice, etc., to hell with EQ... and on, and on , and on..
Auto-tuning is for pussies.
..and hey, while we're at it, put down that distortion pedal! i mean, if you can't get the gain you need from your amp then it must suck , or you are a sissy. right?
No, it just means you need a better amp.
I get what your point is, though. Still, people should learn to sing on pitch. And good tube amps almost always sound better than stomp boxes IMO. But that's just my opinion/preference.
i think you need to re-read my post.... or maybe i wasn't clear enough. i would rewrite for clarity but it's late, so suffice to say i didin't say anything in my post to lead anyone to believe that i like auto-tuning vocals or that i like to use stomp pedals for my tone... i don't, on both counts.Matt Lee said:
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Whilst using tube amps will almost always give that desired tracking tone, you can't really ignore analogue-circuitry stomp boxes that can be used to focus and tighten the tone on the tube amps. Tube tone is sweet, but in the case of some amps like the Mesa Rectifiers, the low-end can get a little uncontrollable and boomy, so you can stick a Tubescreamer in front of it to help focus the tone a tad.
Well you were saying if one is going to complain about sampled kick drums why not complain about these other things, and since your argument seemed to be that sampled kick drums served a valid purpose in making a song sound better, you would seem to be suggesting those other techniques do as well. Which is partially true, if you have a crappy singer or a crappy amp. So I think it kind of dilutes what I believed your point was about sampled kick drums.
So yes, clearly I misunderstood your point about those things, but I believe that's because your message comes off a little contradictory. Sampled kick drums valid, why not complain about other stuff, but then your comments on each of those suggest those are valid as well (unless they were not at all supposed to be sarcastic, and you meant literally that "if you can't get the gain you need from your amp then it must suck , or you are a sissy.")
So yes, clearly I misunderstood your point about those things, but I believe that's because your message comes off a little contradictory. Sampled kick drums valid, why not complain about other stuff, but then your comments on each of those suggest those are valid as well (unless they were not at all supposed to be sarcastic, and you meant literally that "if you can't get the gain you need from your amp then it must suck , or you are a sissy.")
dead_fetus said:
I figured someone would say that.
And well observed. And I have! It takes time to learn really accurate pitch (if it doesn't come naturally), and mine is now much better than it was when I recorded those tracks a year ago. I started singing out of necessity only about 4 years ago ie: I couldn't find anyone to sing my material, so I started doing it myself and OOOH BOY was it awful. But it got better. It still has plenty of room to get better but now (sadly not a year ago) my pitch has gotten pretty solid. Not to mention I have much better breath support. But if everyone just auto-tunes their vocals, they'll never learn. And I don't know about everyone, but I certainly appreciate honesty. 
wow..i've never been so completely misunderstood, or had so much trouble understanding someone else... my statements stand.. and are not contradictory at all.Matt Lee said:
Shpongled
Member
- Aug 30, 2001
- 13,489
- 91
- 48
Matt Lee said:I figured someone would say that.
Excellent. I appreciate a person who can understand constructive criticism (even though it may not seem constructive in the manner I present it at times). Good luck with everything.
Cheers, and namaste.
MFJ
Active Member
Okay, raise your hand if you are incompetent when it comes to speaking the English language.
Oh hey, dirk fletcher- raise your hand.
Oh hey, dirk fletcher- raise your hand.
neal
wizard in black
i understand your point. acknowledging the use of a technique doesn't necessarily endorse it, nor imply that you use it yourself. he was jumping to conclusions.James Murphy said:
It was really more that I was just stating my personal response to it, is all. After looking over everything and talking to James a bit, yeah, the way I originally interpereted it is pretty much what he meant and what neal's saying, and that's why I said "I get what your point is, though. Still..." because I did. In fact I said that to attempt to clarify I was not necessarily disagreeing with what he was saying overall. I was just giving my personal 2 cents about how much I hate auto-tuner abuse and people (not James) who don't know that if they just buy a good amp they'll save themselves a lot of "Why does my amp sound so bad? I have a Metal Zone metal!" It was when it was claimed that I misunderstood that I attempted to reinterpret it and things got messy and confusing.
Sorry for all the confusion. Still James made some very good points to me about valid uses for that technology, so I'm glad the misunderstanding occurred.
Sorry for all the confusion. Still James made some very good points to me about valid uses for that technology, so I'm glad the misunderstanding occurred.
Larf03
Like a rock
This thread turned out very interesting... thanks James Murphy! How's that Tribute to Death cd coming???
