Why I (as a guitarist) love this forum

Metaltastic

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Feb 20, 2005
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So in the years since I've been delving into audio production as a hobby (but one I'm very passionate about), I've come to recognize a great dividing factor between guitarists and their opinions of tones/gear - those who have experience with (and knowledge of) tweaking tones for recording (whether it be mic'ing up an amp or tweaking a modeller to sound good, though moreso mic'ing up an amp), and those who have only heard their gear while standing in front of it in various rooms at various volumes and angles.

Why do I mention this? Because in my humble (haha, right :heh: ) opinion, the latter absolutely cannot be trusted to give advice to the former. Take my JSX: I had it for awhile, and liked how it sounded in the room, cuz it brought the gain and the volume without anything too annoying. But under a mic, I realized that it just wasn't cutting it for me, and honestly, I've heard a lot of people praise it on this forum, but the ONLY one who has provided clips that impressed me is Lasse (and then only through his extremely dark-sounding Engl cab).

The same could go for my own experiences with my Stiletto cab - I tried for awhile to work with it, but thanks to the feedback (mostly from Ermz, with his unflinching candor ;)) on all the clips I posted here, I realized it too wasn't doing it for me, so I ate my humble pie, am admitting I was wrong to preach about it, and am now going for a Recto Standard cab. HOWEVER, I can easily see someone who owned a Stiletto cab and never tried recording it getting really aggressive about it being so much better than "that scooped Recto cab for nu-metal n00bs" (and this would probably be at Harmony Central ;))

And someone could make the argument that one amp/cab could sound better than another in the room but not recorded, and while I don't have enough experience with a variety of gear to deny this, I definitely have my doubts. To me, recording an amp/cab (close mic'ing, mind, not with some camera mic) just puts it under the ultimate microscope, and drags all the worst aspects into the light. So in short, never trust a guitarist to give tone advice, unless he/she can provide recorded clips of the stuff he/she is using! (either made by him/her or someone else using the same or a similar setup)

AND, thanks a ton to everyone (Ermz especially) for the honest feedback on my Stiletto cab tones; I've really been gaining an increasing understanding of the concept of a tone that will work in a mix, and as such I know I'll be much happier with a Recto cab! (for an explanation of the specifics of what I don't like about my Stiletto that I feel the Recto cab will address, see this thread)
 
Well it may be a cliche, but I'd say it's reached that status for a reason ;) And to make a better summary of my post above, it was in the act of recording my Stiletto cab that I realized I didn't like it, and if I had never tried, I don't think I ever would've been dissatisfied with it. So in other words, I love this forum because the emphasis is on guaging tones by recording, not by the testament of a guy who praises the rig he uses with his cover band at the local bar every Friday.

And I've by no means made up my mind on pickups; I'm planning on giving the Blackout and even the EMG 85 another go now that I realize a lot of the mud was coming from the cab!
 
Nah, a 5150 I'm certain is not for me- I've owned one and heard more than enough clips and albums to know that I'm really not a fan of its incredibly smooth character (and the best indicator of this IMO is that none of my favorite guitar tones were made with it); I prefer something with more "bark" than "fizz." However, a lot of tones that I wouldn't say are my favorite but are still really good have been a 5150, but only in conjunction with another amp with more bark (usually, in fact maybe even always a Rectifier :D)
 
Yeah, right on dude. The two camps are quite divided a lot of the time. You get guitarists into the studio who swear night and day by their tone, but it absolutely falls apart when put to the test, time after time. There needs to be a compromise and the guitarists HAVE to listen to the recording professionals at a point because playing in a rehearsal room and cutting an album are two very different things (yet similar in many ways, but that's another discussion).

The problem is that musicians tend to be immensely ego-centric at the best of times, so what you're dealing with is someone that's tweaked his tone to sound uber-brutal to him in his tiny bedroom/rehearsal room, listening at a 45 degree angle, without respect to where the band fits into it. As a recording engineer you have to take the tone and just back away and just visualize the whole band in your mind's eye. Where does his tone fit into it? Is it useful? What is it adding? Will it complement the bass tone? Is his technique tight enough to pull off so little gain? How do you raise the mids without him getting offended? Or on the flipside, how do you record the 6505 with mids on '0' without him questioning your credibility?

But yeah man, it's good that you're very open to different perspectives. I always thought with your open attitude it was just a matter of time until things started clicking. A lot of what I was telling you wasn't just my own perspective, but one that I imagine a great many recording engineers would share. I imagine with time you'll only get closer to what you're after.

Good luck with the 85, by the way. That sort of pickup really works for me, so I hope it does the trick with the new cab.
 
Thanks a lot Ermz, and yeah, I hear ya on the majority opinion - I've realized that the only people I know who use the Stiletto cab (AKA Traditional cab, btw) may get tones that sit better than mine (cuz of course they're better engineers), but they still have them wooly midz that I just really can't get down with. And jesus, I don't doubt that you guys who record other guitarists (rather than just me recording myself :D) can relate to my sentiments above, because you have to force them to realize their "in the room" tone sucks monstrously when a microphone enters the equation! :ill:
 
I agree with you in a sense, but we need to be clear about what we are talking about. If it's purely recorded tones, then yep, better to trust the guy who has more experience micing said amps than the guy who has never recorded in his life.

If we are talking about giving gear advice, however, I think an experienced guitarist who had played a variety of different gear in different band situations, rooms, with a variety of cabs and pickups is more than qualified to give their opinion. I've been in bands since I was 16 or so and have tweaked to my heart's content with a LOT of amps. I know what sounds good and know how to get there.

I think this definitely helps when it comes to getting a usable recorded tone. The mic placement with this type of music is one of the most important things, and is the reason that a lot of guys here who might have great live tone, are scratching their heads when they mic their amp up and it sounds like poo. BUT, having a solid tone before even touching a mic is equally important.

The point I'm trying to make is, if one has a really solid live tone, in the room tone...it takes *some* of the guesswork out of getting a great recorded tone. Afterall, if you start with a shit tone, you can't simply EQ the shit out of it to make it sound good.

I've realized the above with my 5150/Oversized rig. I've realized that the mid and presence knobs make ALL the difference in that amp. I've also realized that a 2mm difference of mic placement makes a huge difference in the tone. I still haven't posted many clips because I'm not totally content with the tone I'm getting. With the 5150, I was about 90% of the way there. I'd rather have my tone sounding it's best than post a subpar clip.

One thing I've recently realized is the dramatic effect that the tone knob of my tubescreamer has on my tone. For some reason I always thought leaving it at 12:00 or a bit above was acceptable. I never realized how honky it made the mids sound in this case. That I learned on this forum...:)

Phew, went off on a bit of a tangent there! haha. While I don't post as many clips as you guys, I feel I'm very qualified to give my opinion on a tone, because I'm pretty familiar with the stock tones of the popular high gainers out there. I will say, however, that I NEED to spend more time with the Recto. I'
ve heard it live countless times, on countless records, but it's the one high gainer that I haven't owned yet.

-Joe
 
Oh, and you guys are awesome. Great forum, great bunch of lads. Brutally honest and funny to boot. Well, I just might up and cry now. *sniff...sniff*

:)

-Joe
 
I agree with most of what has been said in this thread.

However, I still think Guitarhack's Traditional cab sounds better than his Oversized cab judging by the samples and impulses I've heard. There might be some other factor involved, though, I don't know.
 
One last thing! A bit of a gripe. Well, not a gripe, but something that is my fault!

A consequence of being a gear head and being obsessed with getting the tone of a certain amp recorded, is that I have focused less on playing. While I have never had a ridiculously strict practice regiment, I'd like to hone my skills much more. I've owned guitars since I was 13, but man am I underdeveloped! I hear kids out there that have been playing for three years that make my jaw drop, haha!

-Joe
 
So in the end what we all learned today was, just get a fucking recto cab and STFU! Hhahah.

I'm just glad other people on this foum buy things and try em out and I can see if I like them without having to go out and buy it myself!

Thanks DEWDZ!
 
Haha, yup, trial and error! And Joe, you make a good point, but honestly, my intense cynicism of guitarists leads me to feel that often the ones with no experience recording/mixing don't even know what a good tone is, so the tones they've tweaked in the room are not, in fact, good. Also, the fact that one rarely stands with their head directly in front of the speakers while tweaking is a factor as well. And yeah, I realized about a year and a half ago that I was focusing more on the technical aspects of gear and recording than on my playing, so since then I've really always been making sure to remind myself why I started recording (to make my own music sound as good as possible and NOTHING ELSE), but it definitely has to be a constant reminder!
 
Yeah, it's always a trade off. My guitar skills have dropped sharply over time as I've devoted more energy to engineering. It's hard to maintain both. I could blame half of it on a barely-functioning guitar but... that's the easy way out or something.
 
Haha, yup, trial and error! And Joe, you make a good point, but honestly, my intense cynicism of guitarists leads me to feel that often the ones with no experience recording/mixing don't even know what a good tone is, so the tones they've tweaked in the room are not, in fact, good. Also, the fact that one rarely stands with their head directly in front of the speakers while tweaking is a factor as well. And yeah, I realized about a year and a half ago that I was focusing more on the technical aspects of gear and recording than on my playing, so since then I've really always been making sure to remind myself why I started recording (to make my own music sound as good as possible and NOTHING ELSE), but it definitely has to be a constant reminder!

Yep, I do agree with that! Also, I remind myself that a sweet live tone does not always transfer well to a recording. I'm mainly referring to a giggable tone. With the 5150 especially it's usually a matter of adjusting the resonance and lows.

Oh also...I bet lots of guys will simply tweak the amp and then crank the master, but at that point the tonal nuances and characteristics of the amp completely change, so even more tweaking needs to be done!

Man, I really need to be playing more. I feel pretty jaded sometimes about my playing and where it has gone!

-Joe
 
If only I had the energy to focus on one or the other! I'm quite lazy, even with the things that I love. I do have periods where I'm obsessive about either one, but then it fades for a few weeks, then repeats lol.

-Joe
 
I agree that this forum is awesome, but I can only assume you all do know what you're talking about, as I seriously don't have a fucking clue what's going on 95% of the time, it's like you're all talking a different language, for reals. After being her for nearly 18 months, I'm gonna make the decision to not bother with recording, pay someone else to do it and just play more guitar. Reading about some of you and what you do when it comes to impulses, recording, and all manner of plug-ins that I cannot fathom any use of, it's literally mind-numbing.

I'm only semi-joking when I say I wish I could fit in more... I'm sickeningly jealous most of the time. Either you guys are jaw-droppingly above average intelligence, or my brain is crippled. I genuinely don't know which?
 
Naw dude. It took me at least 2 years before I felt confident enough to chip in here on a regular basis. Just give it time and all the techniques talked about on here sink into you. It always helps to read the recommended books and such to get yourself acquainted with the basics of audio engineering. The basics really are the foundation for all other knowledge!
 
Yeah, +1 to that, and also, all the really confusingly heady computer stuff (like impulses, CurveEQ, etc.) can be avoided if you have an amp, a cab, a microphone, and something to plug it into, so it really doesn't have to be that daunting!
 
Maybe it´s little bit off topic, but I will say something:

I (as a guitarist) also love this Forum! :)

Some of you gave me some important tipps here for equipment, mixing and english grammatics hahaha...great appreciation for that, dudes!!
 
I'd hoped it'd sink in more by now, but the big thing that I've been trying to get my head round is drums really, because I don't have any intention of actually recording acousitc drums, and I'm trying to figure out how to use software to replace drums with samples and stuff. I guess I should just buy Slate drums and have at it, only way I'm gonna learn.

Thanks for the encouragement though dudes, more proof that this place smacks the snot out of most other forums!