Why is the metalness of Black Sabbath questioned but not 80s Priest or Dio?

[Phylactery]

He never actually said it was because of the Christian lyrics themselves, more that they sound forced and contrived.

 

[EchoForever]

post good christian lyric songs

 

[CiG]

He never actually said it was because of the Christian lyrics themselves, more that they sound forced and contrived.

Still retarded to drop an album you obviously think is perfect down a notch because you think the lyrics sound forced on one song. They're lyrics, Ozzy could be singing about muesli bars ffs and it wouldn't matter.

Anyways, Geezer is a Catholic and he wrote some Christian lyrics, big whoop.

 

[jimmy101]

To be fair, back in 1971, that "After Forever" song would have come out of nowhere for a lot of Black Sabbath fans.

 

[CiG]

"Black Sabbath" is a song that represents a deep Christian fear of The Devil, it's not some kind of Coven witchcraft bullshit. At the very least it would take some very lazy listening to assume that "oh no please God help me" is somehow pro-devil...

 

[jimmy101]

Certainly. Black Sabbath were never pro-Satan. Although I'd say the song "Black Sabbath" is more about a general fear of the devil, rather than being exclusively Christian.

The lyrics for After Forever are somewhat of an anomaly though, never up until that point had Sabbath written pro-Christian lyrics.

 

[CiG]

Although I'd say the song "Black Sabbath" is more about a general fear of the devil, rather than being exclusively Christian.

"General" in the context of 70's Britain necessarily means Christian, even if you reject Christianity many of your fears will be informed by the surrounding Christian culture and very likely a Christian upbringing. This is why I said a "deep fear" because I was trying to imply something subconscious.

The lyrics for After Forever are somewhat of an anomaly though, never up until that point had Sabbath written pro-Christian lyrics.

Also to a lesser extent "Lord of this World" is Christian-esque.

IMO Master of Reality is when Sabbath really came into their own and thematically is the album that birthed the right hand path aesthetic of doom metal to come.

 

[jimmy101]

I agree with that.

 

[jimmy101]

IMO Master of Reality is when Sabbath really came into their own and thematically is the album that birthed the right hand path aesthetic of doom metal to come.

That may be true, but then again Black Sabbath inspired all facets of doom metal. Can you name a band which embodies this Sabbath-inspired right-hand path doom metal you speak of, bro?

 

[CiG]

That may be true, but then again Black Sabbath inspired all facets of doom metal. Can you name a band which embodies this Sabbath-inspired right-hand path doom metal you speak of, bro?

Trouble are the obvious example.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

... these albums rule, and I'd beat the beJesus out of anyone who thinks otherwise.

 

[CiG]

lordy!

 

[jimmy101]

Both of those bands rule. I believe they both would have existed as we know them without "After Forever" though. Most forms of music have been Christianised in one way or another.

On the flipside, lots of types of music have had their original Christian leanings stripped away. Gospel music turning into early rock n' roll would be a good example.

 

[CiG]

Both of those bands rule. I believe they both would have existed as we know them without "After Forever" though.

Not really sure how one would even go about believing something like this. "After Forever" was essential in making it more acceptable to be religious and a metalhead simultaneously. For all we know, the lads in Trouble would have avoided heavy metal if not for songs just like that.

Anyway such a thing is impossible to predict.

 

[jimmy101]

I always took the song to mean that it's okay to still harbour religious beliefs in the modern age. Especially during the late 60's/early 70's, as that was the relative crux of the counterculture movement.

The song also portrays on non-conformist ideal as well, in that you should stick to your beliefs despite what your friends or family think.

So yeah, I can see what you're saying when you say After Forever was directly responsible for the advent of such Christian metal/right-hand path metal groups.

 

[CiG]

I agree with all of that.

 

[jimmy101]

I'd be interested to know if there is a punk-rock equivalent to "After Forever".

 

[Texas King]

I love Sabbath and they created the metal genre for sure, but I think their early music is kinda 'primitive'(quite bluesy and psychedelic) compared to metal music that came after them (Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Metallica etc.).

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

yea because Rocka Rolla and the Loads are totally heavy metal

First Sabbath album is infinitely heavier and more metal than those abominations.

 

[J.]

After Forever is a great song all the way.