Will there be a draft?
- Thread starter lizard
- Start date
I just read an article about some families who are starting to lay the groundwork for conscientious objection, but the deal is, COs are still taken, and they have to work as combat medics trying to rescue 11Bravos, and they suffer one of the highest casualty rates around.
Baliset
guitar deity
the draft bill got stopped in congress i believe?
i was reading something about how it was started by democrats as a kind of attempt to make people scared and vote democrat.
i was reading something about how it was started by democrats as a kind of attempt to make people scared and vote democrat.
avi
W3RK3R
mindspell
vvv Jake's ass vvv
being part of a section of the canadian population that have historically manifested against drafts I must say that just the idea of a draft, in this case, scares the bejesus out of me. It is like giving the rights of your population's young men for the sake of winning an argument...
FalseTodd
Skirt Wizard
greg: that's definitely an oversimplification of the draft bill that got proposed. My understanding of the reasoning behind the bill is:
a) a wake-up call. As in "with the current direction of our foreign policy this is going to become a necessity".
b) ensuring that if a draft does become necessary, it will be one which attempts to avoid the loopholes for the privileged that existed in the vietnam era law.
I'm not sure what the status of that bill is. I know that repubs in Congress were trying to bring it up for a quick vote so they could prove pre-election that they don't want the draft reinstated...
a) a wake-up call. As in "with the current direction of our foreign policy this is going to become a necessity".
b) ensuring that if a draft does become necessary, it will be one which attempts to avoid the loopholes for the privileged that existed in the vietnam era law.
I'm not sure what the status of that bill is. I know that repubs in Congress were trying to bring it up for a quick vote so they could prove pre-election that they don't want the draft reinstated...
minxnim
meow
well the last time the draft was discussed it was an abstract moral issue more than anything. at this point however, if they start timing out even reservists' overtime and everyone keeps dying, sooner or later they'll have to send SOME people over there. so i guess it just depends when the war ends.
Baliset
guitar deity
sam: yeah you have to remember that the only actual information i heard about it was from the republican side so i got the "biased" version of the story and haven't had a chance to investigate further.
if the republicans retain control of congress AND the white house, the gloves will come off Bush in a heartbeat.
As heavy handed as his administration has been, they're tip toeing right now because of the election. If reelected, Bush will have no need to act with caution. Bush says we have more than enough forces to face a second front but that is nuts; most of our deployable forces are already out there somewhere.
One issue going right now is this idea that he wants to privatize social security. There are some good things and bad things about his concept, and it closely parallels one of the retirement programs we Feds have, namely, our Thrift Savings Program. Essentially, you pay a certain percentage of income into one of a variety of market related funds, thereby providing a major chunk of your retirement funding through your own contributions. This is great is you are in the upper echelon of income owners; not so great if you are strapped for cash check by check. There are going to be alot of retired federal employees in 20 yrs eating catfood, because it requires each individual to have the self discipline to look 20 or 30 or 40 yrs down the road.
As heavy handed as his administration has been, they're tip toeing right now because of the election. If reelected, Bush will have no need to act with caution. Bush says we have more than enough forces to face a second front but that is nuts; most of our deployable forces are already out there somewhere.
One issue going right now is this idea that he wants to privatize social security. There are some good things and bad things about his concept, and it closely parallels one of the retirement programs we Feds have, namely, our Thrift Savings Program. Essentially, you pay a certain percentage of income into one of a variety of market related funds, thereby providing a major chunk of your retirement funding through your own contributions. This is great is you are in the upper echelon of income owners; not so great if you are strapped for cash check by check. There are going to be alot of retired federal employees in 20 yrs eating catfood, because it requires each individual to have the self discipline to look 20 or 30 or 40 yrs down the road.
minxnim
meow
i dont think bush will be pro-draft after the election because that type of decision would affect any future republican that were running also, and any senator/congressman/woman that voted for or against it.
I don't think he necessarily WANTS a draft, but say in a year, if we still have 100,000 troops in Iraq and suddenly an emergency military situation develops, yow.
avi
W3RK3R
minxnim
meow
FalseTodd
Skirt Wizard
minxnim said:
Yes, exactly my sentimonies. Although it does bring up the question of who really has the reigns: the GOP in general or neocons in specific. Does the GOP actually have enough of a handle to curb Bush (or rather his cabinet/Cheny). Would be an illustration of whether or not the neoconservative movement has entirely hijacked the GOP....
Baliset
guitar deity
xfer
I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
"After standing on the stage, after the debates, I made it very plain we will not have an all-volunteer army." -- George W. Bush
xfer
I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
i have a few ambivalent-seeming opinions on the draft:
1. I support a universal draft (no exemptions for privilege). Of course, I do not think people should have to do military service, but instead be required to do a two-year service program similar to the Peace Corps.
2. I find it hard to feel sympathy for people who get drafted and have to serve in the military. Soooo you don't conscientiously object to the concept of fighting wars, but you just want to be able to pick and choose when you go kill? It seems like that the problem is that your elected officials aren't making wise decisions, and that a large number of otherwise gung-ho pro-war types would think differently when a draft was necessary (that is, when a war is currently going on).
That last point is somewhat devil's advocateish, as I think individual people should be able to make their own moral decisions and not rely on elected officials, but it makes the point that it's not like there's some huge degree of moral authority by people who pretty much think war is okay as long as they choose when to fight it.
3. The Republicans say they'll just "increase incentives" to join up. Which may work, but I think it's horrible, because the logical endpoint of it is creating a society where the benefits of joining the military are so huge it would take quite an upstanding person to refuse them. Even to the point where full citizenship or voting rights become based on military service.
1. I support a universal draft (no exemptions for privilege). Of course, I do not think people should have to do military service, but instead be required to do a two-year service program similar to the Peace Corps.
2. I find it hard to feel sympathy for people who get drafted and have to serve in the military. Soooo you don't conscientiously object to the concept of fighting wars, but you just want to be able to pick and choose when you go kill? It seems like that the problem is that your elected officials aren't making wise decisions, and that a large number of otherwise gung-ho pro-war types would think differently when a draft was necessary (that is, when a war is currently going on).
That last point is somewhat devil's advocateish, as I think individual people should be able to make their own moral decisions and not rely on elected officials, but it makes the point that it's not like there's some huge degree of moral authority by people who pretty much think war is okay as long as they choose when to fight it.
3. The Republicans say they'll just "increase incentives" to join up. Which may work, but I think it's horrible, because the logical endpoint of it is creating a society where the benefits of joining the military are so huge it would take quite an upstanding person to refuse them. Even to the point where full citizenship or voting rights become based on military service.
Demonspell
cheating the polygraph
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