Will there be promo's going out for the upcoming album?

[Baliset]

basically i have two views of the metal scene.

1. there are alot of assholes who i choose not to associate myself with because of their assholic nature and the ideals that they cherish in music which to me seem wrong. these are the ones who unfortunately populate most of the scene.

2. there are the many bright spots in the scene. I've happened to meet alot of people at shows and fests during the last few years who are genuinely cool. these are bands, fans, zine guys, and friends who just have shown me that you can't just judge the scene by its assholes and also by the people who almost run it.

My favorite bands and albums are still metal albums for the most part and i don't really feel ashamed to listen to metal or call myself a metal fan because i consider myself to be alot better off than most of the ignorant fucks who call themselves metalheads.

 

[FalseTodd]

P.S. Ian: I'm really psyched you preordered. I have to admit I found your post on the Opeth board re:finding leaked promos a bit irksome, and I'm glad I was wrong.

 

[avi]

I think the most important thing is that all this stuff is being talked about out in the open and looks like it'll factor heavily into the promotion of the album. that's good because they really are important issues for the metal scene to think about. especially when people complain about how marginalized they feel about how the public looks at their scene. OF COURSE you're not gonna respect if everythat that's not totally cult brutal and/or tr00 is "gay".

I actually think a good portion of the metal-listening public is actually quite a bit more open-minded about music in general. it just takes the loud voices of a few morons to drown em out. most of the metal dudes I've met from bands have been well-rounded musically. way bettter than a lot of the punk and indie fools I've met.

 

[xfer]

I also would like to point out that The Sound Gardener's signature on the sonicdeath board is:

Changing from maudlin of the Well to Kayo Dot was the gayest thing that ever happened!

http://www.sonicdeath.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41

 

[xfer]

incidentally, having listened extensively to the album, i think the "the change was gay" types will probably be won over by the music and drop that whole childish nonsense of hatin' on the new (better) name.

 

[IanDork107]

P.S. Ian: I'm really psyched you preordered. I have to admit I found your post on the Opeth board re:finding leaked promos a bit irksome, and I'm glad I was wrong.

To be honest, if it leaks, I'll be downloading it. But I never had the intention of only downloading it and not buying it.

 

[chupe666]

I also would like to point out that The Sound Gardener's signature on the sonicdeath board is:

Changing from maudlin of the Well to Kayo Dot was the gayest thing that ever happened!

http://www.sonicdeath.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41

hey, my sig's been a pancakes quote for a while now

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[FalseTodd]

I can't believe that Pancakes said this: "Report Post | IP: Logged"

 

[chupe666]

i know! he's so insightful.


(now i want to change my sig to that, actually)

 

[kleo706]

I still intend to consider any request for promos of the new Especially Likely Sloth disc from metal zines as seriously as I would one that focuses on another scene. This is in spite of the fact that I can find the promo rips of earlier releases certain members of the metal press requested MUCH easier than their actual reviews. What makes people trash are individual character flaws and not scene affiliation alone.

 

[chupe666]

and yeah, there's closed-minded jerks all over the place, regardless of realm. i imagine there are hardcore folk music fans that insist that anything that doesn't sound like civil war-era balladry is crap. they're probably just not as outwardly abrasive as the average metalhead.

i would agree with avi/untodd in that severing ties with the metal scene whilst retaining elements of heaviness in your music (which i believe do occur in the new record, whether you guys will be creating music with heaviness going forward or not) and/or conveying the notion of disapproval with the metal scene may not have the most endearing effect on those marginal metal fans with tastes that cross into other areas who are searching for other things to listen to.

to me, it seems kind of silly to alienate potential listeners based on personal preference/bias towards/against people because of their following a genre of music. sorry, but admitting negative bias toward a group of people based upon something as broad as their tastes in music is essentially like curbing the number of people who might be interested in checking out your music (even before they listen to it)- and that seems like it'd be doing yourselves in.

on the other side- personally, i can understand wanting to distance anything you do musically from the metal scene. i know from experience that having your work diminished to 4-word descriptions (3 of which are other bands' names and the 4th being "ripoff") is frustrating beyond belief. but succumbing to that and severing ties with the sene would basically be like starting a fanbase from scratch- which ultimately is doing yourselves a disservice (sp?).

 

[FuSoYa]

It also feels wrong to use something that I disagree with to get ahead. I question whether the path to true happiness is paved with the adoration of homophobes and the respect of that half-metal, half-porn zine from years back, whatever it was called. Yes, logically, alienating anyone is a bad idea if you want to make some money. But what kind of message would I be sending if I were willing to unscrupulously accept that kind of thing just because it made my band more famous? Of course there are some great people who listen to metal, write for zines, or run labels. The scene in question is not the individual fan, but it's the abstract collective machine that governs the way its member-music is proliferated. Metal is an MTV/pop microcosm that hates its own mold and can't even see what it's become.

I did an interview a couple years ago with one of the writers of Metal Maniacs. We spoke for about 2 hours - an interview the entire time, and most of that conversation was about the way the metal magazines are run. I asked him why he was asking me how I felt about "metal's stagnation" and all that kind of thing when I felt his magazine was responsible for a lot of it. He explained that it's a money thing - the magazines need ads, and labels won't pay for ads unless their bands are guaranteed coverage- and favorable coverage at that. Take a look at the major metal magazines and see if you can find any outright slams of any of the bands on the labels that place the biggest ads- it's fucking rare. So whose fault is it?

The labels sign what sells, the magazines push what the labels tell them to, the fans buy what the magazines tell them to, the labels sign what sells.

In my opinion, this seemingly unbreakable cycle of horror can only be stopped by simultaneous change en masse, or.. the fans seem to have the least to lose. It's the fans that need to bear the burden of buying better stuff. (I'm a fan too). Interestingly, Metal Maniacs did not print any part of that conversation and only printed the same sentences that you could read in any google-searched interview with me.

I apologize that this thread has turned into yet another "what's wrong with metal" thread, and back to the general topic - yeah I want to be successful, but I don't want to feel dirty doing it.

 

[chupe666]

see, i don't see it as just the metal magazines and scene being this way; i see most every scene in this way. maybe that's being pessimistic of the entire music business, but it seems like that's the way it's all run. all magazines need money, and unless you've got a magazine widely respected beyond belief (and even in some of those cases this still happens) that is somehow immune to advertisers throwing around their weight, the magazines are just businesses trying to make it as well, and are subject to the whims of advertisers. music labels basically dictate what people will buy simply by giving them what they want to sell. they seem to hit people over the head with whatever they want to, and overall, people eat it up because they are vastly unaware that anything else exists.

regarding feeling dirty about the way you acheive things- it's hard to distinguish between discussing a scene and discussing the individuals (meaning fans) within that scene. i think that most people who read comments about the "metal scene" would tend to associate the word "scene" with the fans rather than what you and other musicians may perceive (meaning the record labels, promoters, zines, and businesses involved). i don't see it necessarily as a matter of being in favor of and supporting the idea that you're with the metal scene or not; just not distancing the band and labelling yourselves as "not metal". i would imagine that labelling in general is something you'd wish to get away from, and in garnering support from Tzadik, you've certainly acheived that (something i'm definitely proud/envious of for you guys). ultimately, i'd think it wouldn't matter who your music appeals to, and cutting off a world of music that is not entirely dissimilar to your material is (not even considering the realm of monetary sales, really) cutting off potential listeners.

now, wanting to distance yourselves from the beurocracy of magazines that pander to labels who dictate what people will buy based solely upon past record sales, using bands who are basically "past hit record prototype generators"- i'm with you on that. but i see it as being not just the metal scene (although it's certainly more obvious in metal, and i know that scene better than others).

 

[IanDork107]

There are always going to be bands who don't take their music as serious art and who're fine becoming corporate whores. They're the ones who stick to labels like Century Media, Nuclear Blast, etc. Labels like The End and Dark Symphonies seem more eager to embrace much less standard money making bands, but at this point in both of their existances they could go either way (I mean, Roadrunner started as a pretty decent label and look at 'em now). By going to Tzadik you've made it pretty clear you'd like nothing to do with the corporate bullshit of the metal scene. I don't really see what more you could ask for. People who will appreciate the music you make for the art it is might not all be able to find their way to it if you abandon the scene fully.

 

[FuSoYa]

Yeah that's true, which is why we're continuing to play shows with metal bands, talk to a few select journalists, etc. I think we're basically being a bit more selective this time around.

 

[chupe666]

incidentally, i'll be buying the disc as soon as the locally owned shop i can get to on my lunch break gets it. they seem a little slow, but one of the workers is an avid Tzadik fan, so he'll probably get it in asap.

i just want to buy it soon after they get it so they have to order more- and so someone will ask me what it's like so i can tell them i e-know the band.

what a geek!

 

[chupe666]

incidentally #2, this is what i learned this weekend. note definition #2.



geek ([font=verdana, sans-serif] P [/font]) Pronunciation Key (g

k)
n. Slang

1. A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.
2. A carnival performer whose show consists of bizarre acts, such as biting the head off a live chicken.

[/list]

 

[Baliset]

It also feels wrong to use something that I disagree with to get ahead. I question whether the path to true happiness is paved with the adoration of homophobes.

Again I feel this is way too broad of a generalization. By gaining fans in the metal scene i very much do not feel as if I am gaining the support of homophobes. In fact, its been my experience the stereotypical homophobic meathead metalhead is most likely the brutal deathheads who hate us anyway.

I don't get feeling "dirty" about it at all because I mean the fans we have made in the scene who I have talked to are not like that at all.

 

[avi]

the music publishing industry is a whole different monster that sucks and none of that stuff is exclusive to the metal scene. I seriously cannot think of ONE glossy magazine who's criticism I take seriously. NONE. honestly and creativity are rarely rewarded in the music/entertainment biz. that's why success stories of people operating within like say Fugazi are by far the exception rather than the norm.

and I totally agree with Greg. The morons of the metal scene aren't the folks who'll probably get into your stuff anyway. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[chupe666]

if someone else can prove a dove is not unlike a chicken, then logically ozzy osbourne is a geek.