Yanks only: Who are you voting for on Tuesday?

[Zephyrus]

I'll be in Greek class tonight, with the laptop.

 

[Hypnos]

i hope Obama wins. what the hell was McCaine thinking when designing Palin as his vice. this woman is a crazy fundamentalist!

 

[Dak]

1) Capital punishment has been demonstrably shown to have no correlation at all between it and lower rates of crime.

2) It costs the taxpayer more to execute a man than it does to keep him behind bars for life.

@1 : I'd like to see the evidence for this.
@2 : I wouldn't doubt it but that's probably due to our fucked up penal system more than anything else, not to mention I am sure you/your statistics are excluding the cost of paying prison personnel and building the prisons to house deathrow/life sentence inmates to start with.

 

[AchrisK]

1) Capital punishment has been demonstrably shown to have no correlation at all between it and lower rates of crime.

2) It costs the taxpayer more to execute a man than it does to keep him behind bars for life.

I knew you would say these exact things. I have heard them before from you.

I think it's crazy that it costs more to put someone to death than it does to house them for life. I say we speed that process up in cases where the facts speak clearly. I think execution methods need not be so "humane". I put that in quotes because I think many quick methods of death would be called inhumane because they are brutal. But the subject will endure no more pain or suffering than with our current methods. Truthfully the guillotine is very humane, it's just not nice to look at. But then what death is? So I think we need quick brutal forms of death. I believe that the swifter the process and more brutal the method of execution, the more likely it will be to start becoming a deterrent.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

So the mere fact that you can die for a crime is not deterrent enough? Give me a break.

Plus, prison infrastructure costs have absolutely fucking nothing to do with execution. There were 42 executions in the U.S. last year. You think speeding up the process is going to take a chunk out of our prison system? Fuck no.

 

[skeptik]

www.deathpenaltyinfo.org

 

[zabu of nΩd]

@1 : I'd like to see the evidence for this.

I just wanted to say this: do you really think that someone who wants to kill a person is going to bother doing a thorough cost-benefit analysis of the situation which takes the possible punishment into account? That's rather laughable really.

 

[cookiecutter]

Anyone who is pro death penalty please spend at least 2 minutes at the site Dodens posted. It is not a deterrent and it costs more to kill a man than imprison him for life. This leaves no reason to execute him.

 

[metal_wrath]

Anybody who supports the death penalty over life imprisonment is stupid.

I am in favor of the death penalty over life imprisonment.

Actually I prefer to call it what it is, execution, which I support 100%.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

If someone actually wants to kill another human being (take a single minute to try and comprehend the psychological implications of this concept, really), is it really much of a leap to think that no possible consequence will even come into account, let alone deter them?

It's low-brow, and you do yourself a disfavour by even contemplating it as an actual alternative.

 

[metal_wrath]

Anyone who is pro death penalty please spend at least 2 minutes at the site Dodens posted. It is not a deterrent and it costs more to kill a man than imprison him for life. This leaves no reason to execute him.

From someone who listens to grindcore... just kidding.

Execution is something that will never be abolished in this country or any other.

I find it very funny that there are people who believe this is some type of barbaric act.

Economics should not be a factor in this debate. Also that is an absurd argument:
cost of life imprisonement - tons of money
cost of a bullet to the head - pocket change

This type of thing should never happen though, but it is very common even in this day in age: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7708169.stm

 

[AchrisK]

So the mere fact that you can die for a crime is not deterrent enough? Give me a break.

Apparently not, according to Dodens. I don't have time right now to read the site, but I will.

Plus, prison infrastructure costs have absolutely fucking nothing to do with execution. There were 42 executions in the U.S. last year. You think speeding up the process is going to take a chunk out of our prison system? Fuck no.

I think speeding up the process may aid in lowering the cost of executions, so that they no longer cost more than life imprisonment. I don't understand where all the money goes, but streamlining processes typically saves money.

 

[The Ozzman]

Apparently not, according to Dodens. I don't have time right now to read the site, but I will.



I think speeding up the process may aid in lowering the cost of executions, so that they no longer cost more than life imprisonment. I don't understand where all the money goes, but streamlining processes typically saves money.

The money goes to appeals within the court system, the price of the execution, etc as well as jail time itself.

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

Just cast my vote for Obama. My only complaint with the whole voting process is how anticlimactic it feels. The machine could at least play music or give you a sticker or something. Jeez!

 

[AchrisK]

I just wanted to say this: do you really think that someone who wants to kill a person is going to bother doing a thorough cost-benefit analysis of the situation which takes the possible punishment into account? That's rather laughable really.

The criminal cares not about the cost differential. This is a discussion of a) how the penalty might effect the criminal's actions and b) what each option costs the taxpayers.

You all like to make logical arguments and make assumptions based on projecting those ideas to their logical ends. The fact is, consequences are a deterrent. You burn your hand on a stove, you learn not to touch the stove. You get spanked for telling you mum no, you attempt to avoid doing that. You get too many speeding tickets, you try to change your driving habits. Yes, they are not perfect deterrents and they work to varying degrees on different people. But a child in a home which has discipline is typically more well behaved than a child who is not disciplined. So to say that consequences are not deterrents at all makes no sense.

 

[skeptik]

Execution is something that will never be abolished in this country or any other.

Most first-world countries have had the death penalty abolished for a while now.

"As of October 1, 2008, 92 countries had abolished capital punishment altogether, 10 had done so for all offences except under special circumstances, and 35 others had not used it for at least 10 years or under a moratorium- while 60 countries actively retained the death penalty."

http://www.amnesty.org/en/death-penalty/abolitionist-and-retentionist-countries

Countries whose laws do not provide for the death penalty for any crime


Albania, Andorra, Angola, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belgium, Bhutan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Canada, Cape Verde, Chile, Colombia, Cook Islands, Costa Rica, Cote D'Ivoire, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Guinea-Bissau, Haiti, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Kiribati, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia (Former Yugoslav Republic), Malta, Marshall Islands, Mauritius, Mexico, Micronesia (Federated States), Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niue, Norway, Palau, Panama, Paraguay, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Rwanda, Samoa, San Marino, Sao Tome And Principe, Senegal, Serbia, Seychelles, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Timor-Leste, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, Ukraine, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Vatican City State, Venezuela

Apparently not, according to Dodens. I don't have time right now to read the site, but I will.



I think speeding up the process may aid in lowering the cost of executions, so that they no longer cost more than life imprisonment. I don't understand where all the money goes, but streamlining processes typically saves money.

You can't speed up the process. When a person's life is on the line, you have to be more thorough and discriminating. It's really sick that even when the victim and the victim's family oppose the death penalty, they still will attempt to get a death penalty conviction.

And the deterrence factor is not according to me, it's according to the statistics, which you will see when you read the site.

I personally would rather be put to death than spend life in prison tbh.

 

[cookiecutter]

The criminal cares not about the cost differential. This is a discussion of a) how the penalty might effect the criminal's actions and b) what each option costs the taxpayers.

You all like to make logical arguments and make assumptions based on projecting those ideas to their logical ends. The fact is, consequences are a deterrent. You burn your hand on a stove, you learn not to touch the stove. You get spanked for telling you mum no, you attempt to avoid doing that. You get too many speeding tickets, you try to change your driving habits. Yes, they are not perfect deterrents and they work to varying degrees on different people. But a child in a home which has discipline is typically more well behaved than a child who is not disciplined. So to say that consequences are not deterrents at all makes no sense.

They have done studies and it isn't a deterrent no matter how much you want it to be.

 

[Dak]

One problem with the deterrent arguement with the current statistics is the death penalty is not a consistant punishment even in states that allow for it. If the death penalty was garunteed for a murder conviction I do believe it would act as a deterrent. I do know we have statistics proving those convicted of violent crimes and eventually get out of jail are very likely to commit another violent crime, so while the death penalty may not be a deterrent for the first crime, it most definitely is for a second.

 

[metal_wrath]

Most first-world countries have had the death penalty abolished for a while now.

My mistake, execution should never be abolished in this country or any other country.

 

[cookiecutter]

so while the death penalty may not be a deterrent for the first crime, it most definitely is for a second.

You have no evidence for this. You can't just say things and not back them up by facts, especially when you yourself asked for proof of our claims and then were provided with it.