You too can plan a Metal Fest!

[Jasonic]

That already happens. Warped Tour, Bonnaroo, Lollapolloza, and such all have some metal in it. But you'll never see EdGuy on any of these =p

Why do you say that?
Nevermore were going to play Warped Tour a while back.
I think Century Media didn't offer them enough tour support for it or something, if memory serves me correct.

Actually, I could totally see EDGUY, more than most, playing a non-metal festival. I think they would go over quite well.

 

[Cheiron]

Ok fine then =D I had no real reason for picking EdGuy.

 

[Diabolik]

I think the reason New England Metal and Hardcore fest wasnt well accepted wa the line up. You had way too many hardcore bands which turned off lots of people. Not enough real metal acts to get anyone to go. I also read that the area it was in was really bad. If you were going to pull this off you need to be by a major city with enough places for people to camp or stay at. I agree with what people are saying...I dont ever think it will happen but if it did...there are so many things to look into first.

 

[Jasonic]

Ok fine then =D I had no real reason for picking EdGuy.

Oh, I know, and I see your point.
My counterpoint though is that the idea of a metal band being on a non-metal festival or line-up is not far-fetched at all.

 

[General Zod]

American metal fans are lazy. Plain and simple.

I think you're off the mark a bit. I think the fact that concerts/festivals are poorly attended has more to do with the number of fans, and less about their willingness to travel. As a case in point, last time Iced Earth played NYC, they drew under 2,000. There are 35,000,000 people in the tri-state area, and that doesn't include PA. So, we're not talking getting on a plane here, we're talking getting in your car. It just isn't that popular.

Zod

 

[Jasonic]

Zod -
Or, they were too lazy to go to a show in their own backyard!

That is a big problem with shows here in Chicago.
(and I don't mean to generalize this to all cities)

There are people who live in the city who won't go to a show in the suburbs, and vice versa.

Some people won't go to a show that is more than 15 minutes away from their home.

Also, the infrastructure in the United States makes traveling a lot more lengthy time-wise than in Europe (Where you can take a train to easily travel between countries).

While I applaud you for being a metal-faithful who travels for shows, I must say its a safe bet to say you are in a minority of US metal fans who do so.

 

[Diabolik]

Zod -
Or, they were too lazy to go to a show in their own backyard!

That is a big problem with shows here in Chicago.
(and I don't mean to generalize this to all cities)

There are people who live in the city who won't go to a show in the suburbs, and vice versa.

Some people won't go to a show that is more than 15 minutes away from their home.

Also, the infrastructure in the United States makes traveling a lot more lengthy time-wise than in Europe (Where you can take a train to easily travel between countries).

While I applaud you for being a metal-faithful who travels for shows, I must say its a safe bet to say you are in a minority of US metal fans who do so.

are you talking about me?

 

[Jasonic]

are you talking about me?

Hahahaha.
No, I am talking about EVERYONE we know in the Chicago-land area.
We are all guilty of this.
There are plenty of times, esp during the work week, where I will pass on a show because it is far from my home.

As I said, I assume this happens in other cities as well.

 

[General Zod]

Zod - Or, they were too lazy to go to a show in their own backyard!

Unless you're going to argue that this is strictly a Metal thing, than it just doesn't seem logical. The Mets and Yankees have no problems drawing. U2 and Billy Joel have no problem drawing. The hot clubs in NY and NJ have lines out the door. The best restaurants all require reservations. So, it's not as if people aren't leaving the house and traveling for their entertainment. To me, it seems much more logical that the music just isn't that popular. I could better understand your argument if record sales were high, but concert attendance was low. But that just isn't the case.

Zod

 

[MetalNations]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Just about the Minneapolis Mayhem... not the Heathen Crusade.

 

[aztattooedsean]

I definitely agree with the mix it up bands wise philosophy. It makes it easier to compete around the time of other festivals as most North American based festivals are genre specific.

I personally am all over the place musically. That said, I can see why genre specific fests do well over here as this is the same argument I have always said when someone dreamt on whether a Wacken like fest would do well. Lets say you could put together financially a fest that large. I actually say the toughest part would be convincing all the various fans to come as you always have people see a mixed up lineup and they are like - well, I will sit outside during this band and that band, check out merch during that band, and I am there for this other band.




Bands wise-

Anathama HAS to make it over someday before the big comet hits the earth!!

Riverside would be another band that needs more attention over here.


How often has Sodom got over here?


One current death/thrash band from the US that I dig is the Absence. They do an awesome cover of Testament's Into the Pit.

 

[Magius]

Unless you're going to argue that this is strictly a Metal thing, than it just doesn't seem logical. The Mets and Yankees have no problems drawing. U2 and Billy Joel have no problem drawing. The hot clubs in NY and NJ have lines out the door. The best restaurants all require reservations. So, it's not as if people aren't leaving the house and traveling for their entertainment. To me, it seems much more logical that the music just isn't that popular. I could better understand your argument if record sales were high, but concert attendance was low. But that just isn't the case.

Zod

I think it's a bit of both actually. There is a somewhat of a mass delusion of gradeur among underground metal fans. Many of us just don't realize how small, and in truth statistically insignificant, this nitch is.

On the other hand Glenn posted a Georgia Roll Call and dozens of people responded. This happened the same week of the local To/Die/For, Virgin Black, Shatter Messiah concert held at a fairly convenient location on a Friday night. The cost was a mere $10 advance & $15 at the door. Hoyt could confim the numbers, but I believe advance tickets sales were 7 or 8 and the total ticket sales was about 75. If you subtract the groupies of the local bands I think there would have been about 40-50 people for the marquis bands. As it was there were about 20 or less people left at the start of the Headliner's set.

Clearly at least 3 dozen forum posters new about it and if you add in wives, husbands, significant others, and friends there should have been a far better turnout. Frankly it think it's a pathetic display of the local fans' commitment to support the scene if only 40-50 people show up.

Granted the showcased bands were miniscule in even within this tiny sub-genre. But the original billing had quality bands playing a variety of styles which should have carried some crossover appeal. In addition it wasn't announced on such sort notice that the effort couldn't have been made to familiarize one's self with the bands' material. Shatter Messiah dropping off at the last minite didn't help; however, by looking at the advance sales it's fairly obvious that this show was blown off from the start.

 

[woosta]

I don't know, but I agree that I always hear lots of excuses from people living right in or around a particular city as to why they "can't make it" or won't make it to a show. Don't get me wrong, I've got an excuse too: I live 3 goddamned hours from either Pittsburgh, Philly, DC, Cleveland, Buffalo or Baltimore. That about sums up a reasonable excuse not to make every show I think. Back in my younger days, I'd go to a show, get home at 4 AM and get up at 6 for work. Not these days. These days, it costs me a tank and a half of gas, food, plus hotel room on top of tickets and merch.

I often get pissed at people around cities for not going more to these shows. I know if I lived in or even NEAR a city, I'd be at a show every other night. Particularly if I lived near Jaxx in Springfield VA or the Trocadero in Philly. I just don't get it. Usually it's "I don't know this band or that band" and I want to say WELL NOW'S THE FUCKING TIME! Ah, it bugs me. It really does.

 

[General Zod]

Clearly at least 3 dozen forum posters new about it and if you add in wives, husbands, significant others, and friends there should have been a far better turnout. Frankly it think it's a pathetic display of the local fans' commitment to support the scene if only 40-50 people show up.

In the end, this still goes back to numbers. As we both agree, the scene is small... very small. Now, also take into account the average age of a Metal fan. I think there was a PP thread that determined the average age of a forum members is 30. At 30, you have a life; spouse, kids, career, mortgage, car payments, pets, etc. Metal shows become an afterthought. As I've often said, the biggest difference between being 20 and 30:

At 20, when you throw a party and invite 10 people, 100 show up
At 30, when you throw a party and invite 100 people, 10 show up

How many Avenged Sevenfold shows sell out? Probably most. Is this because 15 year old Emo kids (who don't even have a driver's license) travel for shows? No, it's because they have a ton of fans. The reason Shatter Messiah's show drew 50 people, is because they appeal to an older demographic... and no one has heard of them.

Zod

 

[Metaldrumz]

I’ll be happy to step up to the plate and tell you that there will never be a utopian U.S. Wacken festival. It’s already been attempted and met with tepid results. It’s called the New England and Hardcore Festival. Look at everything they have had in the past few years:

*Major corporate sponsorship that you do not see outside of Ozzfest.
*The best promotional exposure you can get in the U.S. (Hell, even Headbanger’s Ball did a show from there).
*They booked some of the most popular mainstream bands available and combined them with lower card bands of all types and popularity.
*They have a very strong geographical location in terms of historical draw and optimal travel conditions (train from NYC, Philly, etc).

All that means nothing when the lineup sucks balls. I live close to where this joke of a festival is, and had no desire to go. Out of ALL those bands that play I think I wanted to see maybe 3. Im all set.

I think a huge open air fest in the states could be possible. Just needs the proper billing, and promotion as well as the financial backing.

And thats why it will never happen haha. But yeah that New England fest is a fucking joke.

 

[J-Man]

I think a huge open air fest in the states could be possible. Just needs the proper billing, and promotion as well as the financial backing.

And thats why it will never happen haha.

How correct you are. Plus someone has to have the time, and i mean lots of time to put everything together. I mean putting together a festival, even a small one takes up lots of your time, and tons of your cell phone minutes.

So, if you can, first get a commitment of financial backing, and have the time and the resourses, ie people to help, a venue or open air arena and lots of time then it could possibly be done, and done well.

Would it make money??? Doubtful, then again it possibly could.

just my two cents worth.

 

[General Zod]

I think a huge open air fest in the states could be possible. Just needs the proper billing, and promotion as well as the financial backing.

Here's what I think you're discounting... the people who would show up to see Blind Guardian, are basically the same people who would show up to see Iced Earth and are basically the same people who would show up to see Nightwish. Even if you broke down the genre walls and added Dimmu Borgir, Children of Bodom and Opeth, you'd still largely be drawing from the same small well of people. In essence, if you had a totally stacked line-up, of all the top tier bands, in a perfect location, during the perfect time of year, you might draw 5,000 (though I doubt it). And even if you could draw 5,000 year one, who would you book for year two?

Zod

 

[Magius]

In the end, this still goes back to numbers. As we both agree, the scene is small... very small. Now, also take into account the average age of a Metal fan. I think there was a PP thread that determined the average age of a forum members is 30. At 30, you have a life; spouse, kids, career, mortgage, car payments, pets, etc. Metal shows become an afterthought. As I've often said, the biggest difference between being 20 and 30:

At 20, when you throw a party and invite 10 people, 100 show up
At 30, when you throw a party and invite 100 people, 10 show up

How many Avenged Sevenfold shows sell out? Probably most. Is this because 15 year old Emo kids (who don't even have a driver's license) travel for shows? No, it's because they have a ton of fans. The reason Shatter Messiah's show drew 50 people, is because they appeal to an older demographic... and no one has heard of them.

Zod

As A7X draws many teenagers, when Journey or Rod Stewart come to town they sell out large venues to 30, 40, and 50 somethings. That age demographic obviously will make the effort to attend shows. Obviously those artists have a much larger fan base to draw from, but there was a known fan base for this show which frankly just didn't bother.

The biggest draw for this show should have come from members of this forum. Somewhere around forty members could have made some effort to attend, but when you subtract those directly involved with the event about 5 actually came. Friday night... $10. I just consider that to be lazy.

If the local fan base won't make the effort to support the scene on a Friday night, they need not be suprised when Therion skips their town because no promoter will take a chance on booking them on a Tuesday night... much less even consider a festival.

 

[Cheiron]

Magius, people shouldn't come out to support a scene. They should come out to support bands they like. I dont' want to be a Scene-adult (since I can't really be a scenekid anymore). However, admittedly part of the reason I went to that show (despite not being too familiar with any of the bands), was to try to support Theli so that maybe we'd get some other metal more to my liking in the future. =p

 

[woosta]

Magius, people shouldn't come out to support a scene. They should come out to support bands they like. I dont' want to be a Scene-adult (since I can't really be a scenekid anymore). However, admittedly part of the reason I went to that show (despite not being too familiar with any of the bands), was to try to support Theli so that maybe we'd get some other metal more to my liking in the future. =p

See, that's where I'd disagree! You SHOULD support a scene because, frankly, our scene is on life support as it is. Inevitably, every year when Glenn announces the tier of bands playing, you'll have at least half of this board "discovering" a band who's been playing for 2 dozen years. That's just fucking sad. He's bringing in the fucking guns and the "die-hards" around this board don't even take the time to know them (yeah, I know, I know, there's not ENOUGH TIME TO LISTEN...blah blah blah). I think it's the responsibility of each and every one of us to know our own goddamned scene inside and out. What fucking good are we if we can't discuss our genre with people who ask us a question? Sure we can rattle off Iced Earth but you see their shit at Hot Topic. Then we rattle off our little niche bands that don't move 2 records like Archamedes' Elbow or some obscure band like that. What about the up and comers like Edguy, 69 Eyes, Sonic Syndicate, whatever? That's the bridge that connects the main scene to the obscure scene and most don't even understand it even around here. If melodic metal is your scene, then I say support your favorite bands primarily but secondarily support the scene in general. I wonder how many around here made it to see To/Die/For when I know that most here don't know them. I wager about 1/10 of this board made it out and that's just not enough. The rest of 'em missed a kick ass band and a chance to expand their own listening and knowledge.