You too can plan a Metal Fest!

[Cheiron]

Yes Woosta. But that doesn't mean that we should travel to shows/festivals for bands that we don't give too much of a damn for just because they are part of the metal scene.

And I did go to that show. And To/Die/For's singer was so drunk he couldn't sing. It was like bad karaoke of his own band. I left after a few songs. Virgin Black kicked ass.

 

[woosta]

As A7X draws many teenagers, when Journey or Rod Stewart come to town they sell out large venues to 30, 40, and 50 somethings. That age demographic obviously will make the effort to attend shows.

Yep. The difference is that the crowd at those shows don't suffer from the arrogance and self importance, scene-wise, that we do around here. They simply want great songs with melody or a song that takes them back to a great time.

Here? We want the fucking world on a platter that only we carry. Once too many people know our little secret band, we bail. Once a band changes or goes too commercial, we bail. Any slight little change or not enough wankery or not enough whatever and we're out the door. Hell, we can't even agree on what makes a good song around here. Those Journey fans? They may decide something as simple as "sales" determines a great song. They may decide that "melody" determines a great song. They may also decide that it's the "nostalgia" that does it for them. Right or wrong, misguided or not, they at least come to some concensus on the matter. Around here we decide to bicker, squabble, argue, take high-horses, or whatever and we're so busy in-fighting that we're sinking our own metal ship. Sad, but true.

I could make this statement in a new post: "I think Edguy's 'Superheroes' song is a great commercial track that should be on US radio". If I did that, you and I both know I'd have 510 replies stating how "boring" that song is, how "simple" it is, how it's not "true Edguy". Whatever. We're fucking ourselves and we're crying the whole time.

 

[woosta]

Yes Woosta. But that doesn't mean that we should travel to shows/festivals for bands that we don't give too much of a damn for just because they are part of the metal scene.

Again, refer to previous post. That's where we disagree. "The metal scene" is too all-encompassing. I'm not saying that you must go to Ozzfest, and then go to see Symphony X and then go to see Edguy. Whatever your scene is, you MUST support it within metal or that will go away. If I'm in a city and I hear a non-favorite band of mine is playing from my favorite scene/style of metal, say, Eldritch, then I'm going to go see them because A) I like metal, B) it helps my scene C) I may just be impressed with the band on this particular day. What's it cost if I'm near the place? $15? If I can gorge myself at Olive Garden any other day, I can drop $15 to hear some metal in the scene I love. Things won't change until we can wrap our brains around that idea.

 

[Jasonic]

I have said this before, the Internet has killed the concept of a scene.
Back when I was first going to shows in the late 80s, you went to gigs and traded demo tapes with others to learn about bands.

Now any joe blow can go into Hot Topic, see a cool Cradle of Filth shirt, and research them to death online. By the end of the day, he will know every wave of black metal and most likely tell you he is an expert in the genre.

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the internet, as it is a great way to research and sample bands. At the same time though, I do miss the excitement of first hearing a band from actually seeing them live or getting that band in a trade.

There hasn't been a solid metal scene in Chicago for a VERY long time. I am not sure how it is in other cities.

Could be too that the underground isn't as underground as it used to be, so there are enough gigs without having people look to only local shows.

 

[Magius]

Magius, people shouldn't come out to support a scene. They should come out to support bands they like. I dont' want to be a Scene-adult (since I can't really be a scenekid anymore). However, admittedly part of the reason I went to that show (despite not being too familiar with any of the bands), was to try to support Theli so that maybe we'd get some other metal more to my liking in the future. =p

So you're getting the point by missing the point. You don't want to support the scene, but you supported it because maybe supporting the scene will bring bigger and better things.

Why the hell do you think Hoyt's out there busting his ass to attract 20 people to a local show? Because he's tired of being passed over by Therion et al. The only way those kinds of bands are comming to anywhere is if there's a scene that makes it worth their while.

 

[J-Man]

First off, about the age demographic, I am interested to know what is the age demographic for the attendees at ProgPower?? I am willing to bet that is somewhat on the lines of this:

25 and under - 25%
25 to 40 - 60% with more being in the 35 to 40 group
40 and over 15%

The biggest problem we face with "our" music is the mainstream corporate bloodsucking Clear CHannels. As long as they are in charge of the airwaves oh well.

 

[Magius]

See, that's where I'd disagree! You SHOULD support a scene because, frankly, our scene is on life support as it is. Inevitably, every year when Glenn announces the tier of bands playing, you'll have at least half of this board "discovering" a band who's been playing for 2 dozen years. That's just fucking sad. He's bringing in the fucking guns and the "die-hards" around this board don't even take the time to know them (yeah, I know, I know, there's not ENOUGH TIME TO LISTEN...blah blah blah). I think it's the responsibility of each and every one of us to know our own goddamned scene inside and out. What fucking good are we if we can't discuss our genre with people who ask us a question? Sure we can rattle off Iced Earth but you see their shit at Hot Topic. Then we rattle off our little niche bands that don't move 2 records like Archamedes' Elbow or some obscure band like that. What about the up and comers like Edguy, 69 Eyes, Sonic Syndicate, whatever? That's the bridge that connects the main scene to the obscure scene and most don't even understand it even around here. If melodic metal is your scene, then I say support your favorite bands primarily but secondarily support the scene in general. I wonder how many around here made it to see To/Die/For when I know that most here don't know them. I wager about 1/10 of this board made it out and that's just not enough. The rest of 'em missed a kick ass band and a chance to expand their own listening and knowledge.

Every fucking word QFT.

 

[J-Man]

Why the hell do you think Hoyt's out there busting his ass to attract 20 people to a local show? Because he's tired of being passed over by Therion et al. The only way those kinds of bands are comming to anywhere is if there's a scene make it worth their while.

How true that is, you get the point exactly. People like Hoyt, and McGovern, and Nathan, the guys at Powerfest and at Barfest, and Myself we have taken it is the shorts in some cases but it hasn't detered us to bring "The Scene" to as many people as we can, and we will (at least I know I will and Hoyt will) continue as long as we can. We may not be and would never try to be ProgPower but we will do what we can when we can to bring the music to as many as we can.

 

[Jasonic]

The biggest problem we face with "our" music is the mainstream corporate bloodsucking Clear CHannels. As long as they are in charge of the airwaves oh well.

Sorry, but this point is absurd.
If EDGUY started getting commercial airplay on major rock stations, over 75% would hate them tomorrow.

 

[Cheiron]

How true that is, you get the point exactly. People like Hoyt, and McGovern, and Nathan, the guys at Powerfest and at Barfest, and Myself we have taken it is the shorts in some cases but it hasn't detered us to bring "The Scene" to as many people as we can, and we will (at least I know I will and Hoyt will) continue as long as we can. We may not be and would never try to be ProgPower but we will do what we can when we can to bring the music to as many as we can.

Yeah I get this point. I did it that time, but I can't say that I'm going to go to that many metal shows. I mean there is on average a show every two weeks or so. An international show every month going through Atlanta. -Most- of them I have no interest in. Some I have interest in but simply know that based on other hobbies/interests I have I can't reasonable afford to go to them all. I still do go to a number, and I buy albums fairly regularly.

And as you know John and as Hoyt knows I'm starting/planning to be doing some more in this area.

Most bands choose cities to go to based on album sales. What I don't know is how or even if these numbers are calculated when they don't have stores in Georgia selling their albums.

Maybe a 'metal scene' isn't the same as other music genre scenes (such as the indie scene, and emo scenes). I'd have to think on it.

 

[J-Man]

Sorry, but this point is absurd.
If EDGUY started getting commercial airplay on major rock stations, over 75% would hate them tomorrow.

You maybe right, and i won't disagree with you on this point, as i refuse to listen to the radio stations here where i live. But it could also be a combination of your point and my point.

 

[Magius]

The biggest problem we face with "our" music is the mainstream corporate bloodsucking Clear CHannels. As long as they are in charge of the airwaves oh well.

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but the only reason that it's true is as Jasonic said Metal fans are lazy. To be fair it's not just metal fans. Americans in general are lazy musically. They'd rather be spoonfed by Clear Channel rather than take the time to learn their prefered genre.

Also as woosta so aptly pointed out, once "our" bands start to gain any success we tend to bail on them, since our little secret private band isn't so private anymore.

There are a couple of justifications for this attitude. First, we prefer to watch our bands from the rail at Earthlink Live, rather than the nosebleed section of an arena. Second, the last time corporate got a hold on "our" music the resulting explosion of mediocre to just plain bad bands accompanied with unbridaled excessiveness created an implosion of Metal that absolutely killed it in many places. Dio, W.A.S.P. and Saxon once played arenas, but now if they come to your town at all, it's to play a club.

Obviously you can't have it both ways. You can't have intimacy and commercial success, so be careful what you wish for when it comes to Clear Channel. On the other hand if you can't generate any interest, you can't expect to see bands tour either. The only way you're going to get both intimacy and tours is by generating a small, but active local scene.

 

[Jasonic]

Yeah, its a damned if you do, damned if you don't.

5 years ago, many said things like, "I would KILL to see DragonForce live"

Now its like, "I will barely admit to ever liking that cheesy band. Those phags toured with Killswitch Engage... EXECUTE THEM!!"

From my perspective, a scene is something that starts locally with local bands. Maybe I am misunderstanding, but it sounds to me that a lot of you are considering a "scene" to be based around touring bands coming together for a festival. As I said, I could be misunderstanding.....

 

[Magius]

Yeah, its a damned if you do, damned if you don't.

5 years ago, many said things like, "I would KILL to see DragonForce live"

Now its like, "I will barely admit to ever liking that cheesy band. Those phags toured with Killswitch Engage... EXECUTE THEM!!"

Exactly.

From my perspective, a scene is something that starts locally with local bands. Maybe I am misunderstanding, but it sounds to me that a lot of you are considering a "scene" to be based around touring bands coming together for a festival. As I said, I could be misunderstanding.....

Yes the scene starts locally, but as it grows information on bands grow, and as it grows the fan base grows, and fans buy CD's, and promoters take notice, and touring bands get booked...

As I understand it SoundScan now tracks where CD's are shipped to by internet vendors, so buying from internet vendors now supports your local sales numbers.

 

[MetalNations]

And as you know John and as Hoyt knows I'm starting/planning to be doing some more in this area.

For me... I am basically just doing the Heathen Crusade and that is it.

I am willing to help out Hoyt or anyone that questions. Trust me. I learned from many mistakes in the past and wish it not on anyone else.

 

[General Zod]

For me... I am basically just doing the Heathen Crusade and that is it....

So HCIII is definite? Are our RC friends aware?

Zod

 

[jaimek]

First off, about the age demographic, I am interested to know what is the age demographic for the attendees at ProgPower?? I am willing to bet that is somewhat on the lines of this:

25 and under - 25%
25 to 40 - 60% with more being in the 35 to 40 group
40 and over 15%

I did a survey on the forum about 3-4 years ago, and the average age was 30-31. It would be interesting to see if that changes, esp. given that a lot of the same people who answered are still going to the show (and are 3-4 years older now, and possibly moved into another bracket).

And there's a poll option now too... hm!

 

[MetalNations]

So HCIII is definite? Are our RC friends aware?

Zod

Well... If it goes through. Then yes. If it is done. Then I am as well.

We are still unsure about the HC3.

 

[Met-Al]

Everybody has their reasons as to why we can't have a Wacken-styled festival here. Are any of you wrong on this? In my opinion, you're all right. Any business venture taken by an true entrepreneur, i.e., one who is taking a major financial risk and not someone with money to burn, is scary. The cards are always stacked against you. Take Glenn, for instance. So far, he's the only promoter in the country who has taken a festival dedicated to a niche market for heavy metal, stuck to his guns, hasn't rested on his laurels when met some success, and has managed to keep his festival going for over five years. I use the timeframe of five years because I've noticed many festivals dedicated to metal don't last past that mark. Now take into account everything that is working against him:

--Progressive and power metal sales are weak in this country compared to those of most genres of music
--Only a small percentage of people in this country are willing to travel to see a festival of this type, let alone frequent the festival every year (and that includes people who claim to love this music)
--Promotion on a major scale is difficult because the mass media demands huge amounts of money for advertising
--The more popular bands of this genre cost more money to bring over due to travel expenses

These factors can easily be broken into sub-factors. When you look at it from this point of view, it's hard to believe that Glenn has managed to keep this thing going. However, in reality it seems that there are no signs of the fest going away in the near future. Everybody has their reasons for explaining this as well, but I think that what it comes down to is that Glenn is a realist. He didn't start this show thinking that he could compete with Wacken, and he's not trying to do so. I think his goal is to put on the best possible show that he can. He also realizes that it takes a shitload of work to do this right. I don't know any promoter who does as much research on bands and puts as much consideration into all of the factors/stakeholders of the festival as Glenn does. Before I get accused of ass-kissing, I just want to conclude by saying that I thought the title of this thread is misleading, as I may be able to dream up a metal fest, but I don't think I could properly execute it.


Stay metal. Never rust.
Met-Al

 

[SwordLord]

you're welcome. Now if your lineup is that, I expect 10% off the gate . Or at least some free backstage and tix.

Backstage passes I can definitely do ... 10% of the gate - so if I lose money, you'll cut me a check?

As our dear ol' Glenn can attest, it's completely unrealistic to think that you can make money on your first festival ... so I'm not nearly that deluded!