Your views..

[Russell]

So, I recently bought the new Delerium CD (I know, I'm so un\M/ ), and I'm happy with the music. I'm also in the process of ripping all of my CDs onto atrac3 which my new walkman plays, so I can take around 100 CDs to uni with me instead of over 1000.

When I tried to rip the Delerium CD, I have discovered it's copyright protected - a major pain in the arse! Now I'll either have to take the CD with me to uni or leave it behind, neither of which is preferable.

So, what are your views on copyright protection on CDs? As far as I'm concerned it is a complete breach of my rights as owner of the CD. I don't even have a file sharing program installed on my system, all I want to do is move the CD to a more convenient format to my use - a process that is completely within my rights as the owner of the CD, which has been denied by the corrupt CD (until I find a way to get roung it, that is ). Which I find exceedingly annoying! In my search for a way to get around it I also found this website which shows rather more succinct arguments against it than mine: http://ukcdr.org/

Thoughts?

 

[NAD]

I'm pretty much anti-filesharing, and my mp3 collection is around 20 total, with about half of those being just samples. The main argument (and allegedly moral, given the guilt-tinged tone it usually carries) nowadays is that "well I wouldn't ever have gotten into this group without downloading a song or two first, so they got a lot of my money becuase I was able to!" Screw that. I've been making blind purchases for over 10 years and I still continue to do so. Half the fun is being surprised by what the album will sound like when you finally get it!

As far as I'm concerned it is a complete breach of my rights as owner of the CD.

Exactly. To punish the legal consumer (and making a personal copy if LEGAL) is ridiculous. Back before the days of CD players in cars I used to copy my CDs onto casettes to bring them with me, nothing wrong with that. My mom wasn't too happy when I made a copy of Cannibal Corpse's The Bleeding when she used to taxi me around all the time at 15, but as long as it was quiet she didn't mind TOO much...

 

[JayKeeley]

So, what are your views on copyright protection on CDs?

Well, I expect the copyright protection is to prevent people from ripping MP3's and distributing around the web. How this is a bad thing though, I've never fully understood....

In the underground circuit, the metal scene has no marketing & media budget - so it needs to rely on MP3 exchange, webzines, and forums (word of mouth). However, stuff like Britney Spears etc is a slam dunk sale so she (as an artist) won't benefit from people ripping her music off and sharing it with others. I'm not sure where Delerium fits in this spectrum - they're on a small label right? Copyright protection for them makes no sense therefore.

I do agree that it is your right to rip the CD that you already paid for, but record companies don't see it that way. They think you might share the music with others preventing further sales.

For the record, I've never downloaded an MP3 in my life (unless for sampling). If I like a band, I'll buy the CD - I don't want a CD-R of MP3's, or listen to it on my hardrive. Yuk.

 

[bloodfiredeath]

Copy protection on cds is a load of shit.

As for dowloading, I'm all for it. I have hundreds of albums downloaded on my harddrive. Many of those are burnt onto cd are always in my car in a big giant book. That said, I spend plenty of money on cds each month, more than anyone I personally know. I'm not going to going to try to give any moral argument for downloading, but I look at it like this. I am far from poor, but I don't have enough money to buy all the cds I want, I just don't. And I see no reason for that stopping me in getting any album available. I'll download anything that sounds interesting, and buy what I really like, when I get around to it. However, there are plenty of bands which I describe to other friends as "good, but not good enough to buy."

I see nothing wrong with this, and quite frankly I am baffled by people's refusal to use such a great tool. But hey, it's probably best that not everyone thinks like me. I wouldn't want it to be ruined...

 

[JayKeeley]

I see nothing wrong with this, and quite frankly I am baffled by people's refusal to use such a great tool. But hey, it's probably best that not everyone thinks like me. I wouldn't want it to be ruined...

It's not really a moral issue for me - it's more to do with the fact that I don't want to sit at a PC trying to locate one song at a time. I've seen Kazaa in use, and quite frankly, it is a pain in the butt. And I have way too many other things in life to get on with.

We downloaded the entire series of Helsing through Kazaa and burned it on to VCDs - the entire process took about 7-8 days. Never again. Do people really have this kind of time on their hands?

I would rather spend $10 for a CD at The End (for example) than sit at a computer. I sit at a computer at work, and I sit at a computer for the webzine. I think if I started to look for downloads, I would be at the computer round the clock.

 

[NAD]

I would rather spend $10 for a CD at The End (for example) than sit at a computer. I sit at a computer at work, and I sit at a computer for the webzine. I think if I started to look for downloads, I would be at the computer round the clock.

Bingo. My issue is slightly moral, but more as a standpoint of a collector.

First, where is the artwork and the actual fun in having an album? I must admit that I miss the days when CDs came in big ass 14" long cardboard boxes! For some foolish reason I through those away when I moved out of my parent's house some years ago, wish I still had that gigantic Faith No More - Angel Dust hanging on my wall.

Second, mp3s just do not sound as good as a CD, it doesn't take a trained ear to hear the difference (we aren't talking CD vs. DVD-audio vs. HDCD vs. SACD).

The only people I have a problem with per se are the ones that download 600 albums and do not own a single CD. They may be the rare case, but I have had several friends who do this. I look at my collection on my 900+ capacity CD rack and look forward to filling that someday. I can point out my rarities and remember the hunt it took to find my Future Sound Of London ISDN gatefold edition, or my Wake Up and Smell the Carcass that I used to carry around with me all over town, and see the water damage left when my dumbass dropped it in the gutter on the way to the gym. Can someone look at a list of files downloaded in one caffeine induced marathon and feel like they accomplished something?

Heh, that was a bit sentimental.

 

[bloodfiredeath]

It's not really a moral issue for me - it's more to do with the fact that I don't want to sit at a PC trying to locate one song at a time. I've seen Kazaa in use, and quite frankly, it is a pain in the butt. And I have way too many other things in life to get on with.

We downloaded the entire series of Helsing through Kazaa and burned it on to VCDs - the entire process took about 7-8 days. Never again. Do people really have this kind of time on their hands?

I agree, but I don't deal with those file sharing programs. Using newsgroups, people post entire albums, which you can download in a snap. With a high sped internet connection, I could download a dozen albums with very little effort. You can sort all the albums, earmark them, and let your computer do all the work for you.

The only people I have a problem with per se are the ones that download 600 albums and do not own a single CD. They may be the rare case, but I have had several friends who do this. I look at my collection on my 900+ capacity CD rack and look forward to filling that someday. I can point out my rarities and remember the hunt it took to find my Future Sound Of London ISDN gatefold edition, or my Wake Up and Smell the Carcass that I used to carry around with me all over town, and see the water damage left when my dumbass dropped it in the gutter on the way to the gym. Can someone look at a list of files downloaded in one caffeine induced marathon and feel like they accomplished something?

I can agree with this, being that I am a total merchandise whore myself. I have about 1500 actual cds. Maybe I'm rare case, I don't know, I'm just saying it's so a helpful and easy, I can't NOT download stuff.

 

[Ayeka]

The main argument (and allegedly moral, given the guilt-tinged tone it usually carries) nowadays is that "well I wouldn't ever have gotten into this group without downloading a song or two first, so they got a lot of my money becuase I was able to!" Screw that. I've been making blind purchases for over 10 years and I still continue to do so. Half the fun is being surprised by what the album will sound like when you finally get it!

True, but you have to admit that you can end up with some right duffers as well. And I can definately back up the argument you cite. God knows how long it would have taken me to get into Black Metal if I hadn't been able to download Bathory clips three years ago. A month after those downloads I bought Blood On Ice, the In Conspiracy With Satan tribute and Quorthon's first solo albums, on the strength of what I'd downloaded. You know what I've got subsequently since then.

And, generally, people who download whole albums are the type that wouldn't have bought them anyway, wouldn't you agree? Even if the artist isn't getting £, the music is stillspread and we know what a powerful tool word of mouth is.

 

[NAD]

And, generally, people who download whole albums are the type that wouldn't have bought them anyway, wouldn't you agree? Even if the artist isn't getting £, the music is stillspread and we know what a powerful tool word of mouth is.

Definitely agree to this first bit, and the second brings up a very good point, especially for the underground.

 

[Demonspell]

I'm also anti-file sharing and use mp3s only for sampling purposes...I have never ripped anything in my collection to mp3, not even for personal use, and would certainly not make them available over the net.

 

[bloodfiredeath]

I would never file share simply because I don't want some dirtbag looking on my computer.

 

[Russell]

I'm not sure where Delerium fits in this spectrum - they're on a small label right? Copyright protection for them makes no sense therefore.

Nettwerk were small when Delerium signed with them I believe, but after the success of Silence the label have become pretty large I believe.. The thing is, copyright protection is by no means 100% effective, I've found 3 ways to get around this one (yet to do one tho). After a very quick search on google I found the entire album on MP3 anyway! So the copyright protection seems to have had absolutely no effect on the availability of illegal copies of the album, all it has done is penalise people like me...

Hmmmm

 

[Russell]

First, where is the artwork and the actual fun in having an album? I must admit that I miss the days when CDs came in big ass 14" long cardboard boxes! For some foolish reason I through those away when I moved out of my parent's house some years ago, wish I still had that gigantic Faith No More - Angel Dust hanging on my wall.

I thought that was just me being anal, loving all the artwork and packaging etc

Second, mp3s just do not sound as good as a CD, it doesn't take a trained ear to hear the difference (we aren't talking CD vs. DVD-audio vs. HDCD vs. SACD).

Personally, with the format I'm using I can't hear the difference over headphones, and only just with a decent pair of speakers.. Of course, taking the above comment to account (i.e. me loving packaging), it would be great to take all my cds to uni, but I just don't have the room So atrac3 will just have to do!

I still wanna get a 900+ CD rack Instead of the 6 I have at the moment

 

[Russell]

I can point out my rarities and remember the hunt it took to find my Future Sound Of London ISDN gatefold edition

P.S. You are a cunt

 

[NAD]

P.S. You are a cunt

Ebay dude! It's a pretty good CD, but not their best. By far the best artwork though!

 

[Russell]

I have the CD, just not the gatefold edition Ah well, I'm not overly deperate

 

[NAD]

The regular edition removes 3 tracks from the gatefold, and the gatefold adds 3 tracks that as far as I know, you can't get anywhere else. Honestly I don't even listen to that one much, but it is cool to have.