4x12 Cab Shootout

[Razorjack]

In the US the krank and the marshall are about the same price ( $1K ) and I don't thing the mesa's are much different.

Ouch, the Mesa cabs cost around £800 ($1400) and we can't even get a Krank without importing one (and then you add 20% for customs). The Marshall 1960sv is £400.

 

[Mendel]

[SPIEL]

A rectifier coverts AC wall current to DC for the amp to use. Most modern amps use a solid state circuit to do this, but the Mesa Recto series uses old skool tube rectifiers.

The main point being that tube rectifiers behave differently that solid state rectifier diodes when there's a heavy current draw. For example, when you suddenly lay into the guitar real hard, the amp calls for more current to reproduce the dynamics.

Solid state diodes are more efficient than tube rectos, thus they have a harder attack, whereas tube rectos "sag" or have a spongier feel. Some like it, some don't.

The solid state diodes are far more reliable and less expensive and keep costs down for manufacturers, so that's probably the main reason why tube rectifier amps are so exotic (erotic?) or whatever now.

Many amp gurus feel that the cheap diodes that come stock in most amps are too harsh and tube rectifiers are too "soft", so one compromise is to replace the stock diodes with FREDs (fast recovery epitaxial diodes) which are supposed to smooth things out.

I've done that myself, and I would describe the difference as subtle at best. It's pretty much something that only a player familiar with their amp would notice, but I would do it again if I got a new amp with the cheapies in it.


[/SPIEL]

so tube amps are better right ? . . come on . .TUBE AMPS !!

 

[JeffTD]

so tube amps are better right ? . . come on . .TUBE AMPS !!

Tube amps and tube rectifiers are apples and oranges!

Tube amps own the SHIT out of modelling amps, that's for sure.

Tube or SS rectifiers? That's a personal preference. I personally prefer SS or FREDs.

 

[black sugar]

Mendel -- Most tube amps produced since probably the late 60's / early 70's (I'm guessing) have solid state rectifiers.

DSS# -- Yeah, I prefer the SS rectifiers too, esp. for anything high gain. Of course there are plenty of examples of great Mesa rectal-fryer metal tones out there thanks to Dr. Sneap, among others.

And there is something to be said for tube recto amps for a nice, gritty Fender Super Reverb "clean" or nasty Vox AC30 tone on more standard rock stuff.

 

[jamesboyd]

nice one matt, glad someone else prefers the smaller recto cabs

I'm really keen to hear krank through the small mesa cab as that is a rig I'm looking into

 

[silverwulf]

nice one matt, glad someone else prefers the smaller recto cabs

That's 3 of us then. I use the Mesa Recto (Traditional Sized, Straight) 4X12 Cab. It's an awesome cab.

 

[jamesboyd]

yup I've got the traditional slant, and it's never let me down in the studio, I've recorded line6 hd147's, 5150's, xxx, rectifier, mark4,jcm800 etc thru that cab and it always turns out well,

the only downside is that it is a very 'specific' sounding cab, meaning that with the right tweaking you can get a pretty consistant sound regardless of amp head.

 

[Kazrog]

It's not like I have a lot of $$...I just put two of them on a credit card and will keep the one I like best and return the others. I certainly can't afford to keep all three. That's why it's a shootout!

Anyway, I miked them up last night. It was not even close; the smaller Mesa ANNHILATED the other two. I don't know if I got a bad apple or something, but that Krank cab sounded terrible miked up. Obviously Andy got a great sound out of it, so I'll try some more (I only had time to try one speaker so far), but it sounded flubby on the bottom with an indistinct midrange and an annoying high end. The big Mesa was better, and the small Mesa was freaking perfect. This was with the Krank and 5150 heads.

I'll post clips later.

This is the result I anticipated.

 

[J the TyranT]

All the Guitar Centers here in Houston have always been cool about me plugging in... even the shitty stores let me plug into whatever I want.. that's weird you had that problem, 006... where'd you go, Austin?

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Anyway, I miked them up last night. It was not even close; the smaller Mesa ANNHILATED the other two. I don't know if I got a bad apple or something, but that Krank cab sounded terrible miked up. Obviously Andy got a great sound out of it, so I'll try some more (I only had time to try one speaker so far), but it sounded flubby on the bottom with an indistinct midrange and an annoying high end.
I'll post clips later.

Matt: One idea you might want to consider would be removing the metal grill from the Krank cabinet.... that might be interfering with the sound somewhat. Metal grills are great for club gigs & general road misuse, but i'm not too sure about close miking them. I've had a world of difference with an older Sheffield cab with & without the metal grill on.

Just grab an electric screwdriver & let it rip.

 

[EtherForBreakfast]

I have the Krank revolution head again on loan.. I use it with a Mesa 1x12 recto cab with V30.

I like the Krank cabs, but I think a genz benz is a better solution.

I dont like Krank cabs.... just dont like em. You can hear a resonance in there that is annoying. Almost as annoying as the Krank itself. The Revolution has this high sizzle bacon on front burner on high, the Krankenstien has less pronounced bacon but its still there.

Bogner makes the best cabs, but Mesa is second... try a bogner 4x12 with V30 up top and H30 at bottom... bliss.

 

[Matt Smith]

Yeah, I definitely took the grille off immediately before miking.

OK here ya go guys. Obviously this test is totally unscientific. I tried to match levels by ear and get the mic positioning as consistent as possible, but of course it's not going to be perfect. It's definitely good enough to hear the different sound/character of all these cabinets, though.
Forgive me for the sloppy performance of this Nevermore riff; again, I didn't have the time to get everything perfect. Both Mesa cabs sound pretty good (though I prefer the smaller one), but I still think the Krank cab sounds terrible on these clips.

Krank Revolution:
Mesa Traditional (Smaller)

Krank Cabinet

Mesa Standard (Oversized)


Peavey 5150:
Mesa Traditional (Smaller)

Krank Cabinet

Mesa Standard (Oversized)

 

[chief]

Cheers for the clips, I think the mesa trad cab is on my wish list also

 

[Virgil.]

Ditto :hotjump:

 

[Ermz]

I don't think the Krank cab is that bad. It would definately make for a good blending tone.

But I agree, the slant cab annihilates.

 

[SliderJeff]

Nice to see a fellow displaced Yankee down here in Hellston... err... Houston. Which craptastic Guitar Center do you frequent, the Westheimer one or the 45 North one?

I bought my Mesa 20/20 and Vertical recto 2x12 from the Westheimer one.

Later,
Jeff

All the Guitar Centers here in Houston have always been cool about me plugging in... even the shitty stores let me plug into whatever I want.. that's weird you had that problem, 006... where'd you go, Austin?

 

[Richard Tull]

Add another vote for traditional. Just like Mesa says, it has more mid focus and a tighter attack than the oversized. I gots both!

 

[J the TyranT]

If it's something small I need, Ill go to north 45, because it's closest. If we need a [good] mic or something serious... your best bet is Westheimer... and Clear Lake is fucking miserable.

Dude, catch me in PM, or on AIM or myspace or something if you're down here too!

 

[Disconnekt]

Yeah, I definitely took the grille off immediately before miking.

OK here ya go guys. Obviously this test is totally unscientific. I tried to match levels by ear and get the mic positioning as consistent as possible, but of course it's not going to be perfect. It's definitely good enough to hear the different sound/character of all these cabinets, though.
Forgive me for the sloppy performance of this Nevermore riff; again, I didn't have the time to get everything perfect. Both Mesa cabs sound pretty good (though I prefer the smaller one), but I still think the Krank cab sounds terrible on these clips.

Krank Revolution:
Mesa Traditional (Smaller)

Krank Cabinet

Mesa Standard (Oversized)


Peavey 5150:
Mesa Traditional (Smaller)

Krank Cabinet

Mesa Standard (Oversized)

How did you mic these, and how much post EQ did you apply? Do both the Mesa cabs have V30s, or only the traditional?

I find myself liking the Krank and the Mesa Standard blended together, especially with the 5150 and the Krank playing at the same time. The Traditional is definitely tighter, but the high end (4-6.5k) is a bit harsh and nasty. If tamed a big with EQ, it sounds better, clearer, and more focused. I guess it's just a matter of taste, but the Krank and the Mesa Standard, when used together, sound absolutely MASSIVE and still clear. For a riff like the one you played, I think either (or both) of the other two sound better, but for more intricate and technical stuff, the Traditional would definitely cut through better.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Thanks for posting the clips, Matt. Nice tight riffing, btw.


To my ears, on the Krank amp, the smaller Mesa sounded best, but on the 5150, I thought the large Mesa cab was the standout. Regardless, the Krank cab was the worst sounding out of the bunch. Kinda reminds me of the sound of an old custom cab loaded with 85 watt Celestions that I put out of it's misery a few years ago.