7 string - EQ settings

[Volcane]

Guys,

I was wondering if you had any thoughts about hi cut on guitars. Using a 7 string, EVH 5150 mic'd with one off-axis SM57 (no room mic) I've found that I need to really hi cut everything over 6KHz to avoid masking cymbals and vocals.

It sounds good to us (and I guess that's the point) but what frequency do you guys roll your guitars off at (if at all) ?

 

[Wavebreaker]

I play only 7-strings too, and I've had some issues with this as well.
The first thing I do when dealing with the frequency response of the signal is move the mic. Every time I record, I try different placements just to get a bearing on what I want to hear. This usually helps me approach the sound I want in respect to the balance of frequencies.

For 7-string, I generally place a HPF at 80Hz and a LPF at ~10kHz

 

[Volcane]

I play only 7-strings too, and I've had some issues with this as well.
The first thing I do when dealing with the frequency response of the signal is move the mic. Every time I record, I try different placements just to get a bearing on what I want to hear. This usually helps me approach the sound I want in respect to the balance of frequencies.

For 7-string, I generally place a HPF at 80Hz and a LPF at ~10kHz

Good points - 80Hz seems pretty low to me. I remeber seeing somewhere that Andy cuts everything below 120hz. I know you can't have a one-size fits all solution, but is the 80Hz because of ther low B, or do you apply the same settings to a 6 string ?

 

[Wavebreaker]

Good points - 80Hz seems pretty low to me. I remeber seeing somewhere that Andy cuts everything below 120hz. I know you can't have a one-size fits all solution, but is the 80Hz because of ther low B, or do you apply the same settings to a 6 string ?

Hmmm... 120Hz seems kind of high... I'm not sure if the fundamental frequency of a guitar's low B is 61.735Hz or 123.47Hz (can anyone clarify this point?) but either way, I've tried various settings on the high-pass filter and I find that, for my guitars, amp/cab, and mic, ~80Hz is the best compromise between clarity and heaviness.
If I go any lower (~60-70) I get too much thump that totally masks the bass's already questionable low-B. If I go higher than 80, the resulting guitar sound is a bit too thin in the mix.

But hey, we all know there's no magic numbers in music, we have to play it by ear with the help of some vague guidelines people have picked up through experience.

As far as Mr. Sneaps's settings, I really don't remember haaving read anything about the HPF, but I vaguely remember something about multi-band compressing the low mid section in the 150-300Hz zone or something like that, which definitely makes sense, it makes a huge difference with my bassist who tends to play very independant bass lines that just beg to be heard!

 

[egan.]

The low B is @ 61hz on a 7 string.

 

[Wavebreaker]

The low B is @ 61hz on a 7 string.

Oh crud, then the low B on a 5-string bass is 31Hz? That's retarded...

Well, obviously I cut them fairly higher than their lowest fundamental note, gotta get rid of that horrible thumping sound... (I cut the bass at ~50-60Hz)

 

[egan.]

Yeah the B string is at 31hz which makes it a pain in the ass to tell what's going on unless you have a subwoofer (and a decent room). "Horrible thumping" sounds more like a technique issue than a frequency issue. Obviously you don't want too much info going on that low, but I never high pass the bass unless I fucked up tracking it. Make sure you dont let the bass player scoop the crap out of his bass and amp. IMO bass is way easier to deal with in recording situations when it's "flatter" in terms of freq. response. The low B should be felt on the low end, not fart or hit the pickup a lot. You really need a DI, amp and cab that can handle it and not everything can. A nice bass with a 35" scale neck helps. (Can you tell I'm a bass snob?)

 

[Wavebreaker]

Yeah the B string is at 31hz which makes it a pain in the ass to tell what's going on unless you have a subwoofer (and a decent room). "Horrible thumping" sounds more like a technique issue than a frequency issue. Obviously you don't want too much info going on that low, but I never high pass the bass unless I fucked up tracking it. Make sure you dont let the bass player scoop the crap out of his bass and amp. IMO bass is way easier to deal with in recording situations when it's "flatter" in terms of freq. response. The low B should be felt on the low end, not fart or hit the pickup a lot. You really need a DI, amp and cab that can handle it and not everything can. A nice bass with a 35" scale neck helps. (Can you tell I'm a bass snob?)

Yeah, my bassist plays a custom 5-string 35"-scale fretless Carvin bass. His technique is impeccable whether playing pick, fingers, slap, or guitar. I tracked it direct (his bass's tone knobs having been set pretty much flat) with a Presonus MP20, some compression (Behringer Composer) going into my 2408mk3. The bass sounds good, but he's installing Bartollinis soon as he wants a more defined sound in the low end.

I get some of that low end thump from rhythm guitars as well which is why I HPF so high... I'm pretty happy with the sound, makes for a clear, tonally balanced overall sound picture. Not as heavy as I had intended when I had first started, but hey, I'm no Andy Sneap! :Spin:

By the way Egan, have any more suggestions about bass? you were quite helpful in checking my signal chain, even though I didn't locate a culprit...

 

[egan.]

I think I misunderstood the thump you were talking about, but it's good that things turned out well. I'm guessing that with the setup you have you got a nice really pristine bass sound which is good. Personally I try to get one super clean DI and then either mic an amp or run through a sansamp to get a dirtier tone. I'm a really big fan of the sansamp bass driver for adding more balls to your tone w/o having to mike an amp. i think it makes the bass sit better w/ the guitars and makes it sound huge. Anyway usually a mixture of the 2 tones works well for me.

 

[Andy Sneap]

as far as filtering, I judge it by ear, how tight whoever is playing, what cab etc is being used. I find with my Marshall loaded with Celestion 30's I'm having to cut 10/12k and above because of a fizz that I don't get on the boogie cab. Same with the low end, the boogie is more controlled. I think the trick with lower tuned stuff, is to get a more aggressive mid range, to try and get the note to come through. Also with the bass, try getting the DI, run it through something like amp farm /sans amp and filter everything below 800hz-ish and above 2k-ish and mix it in underneath your main sound, see if it helps bring the bass out, especially on smaller speakers.

 

[Wavebreaker]

I think the trick with lower tuned stuff, is to get a more aggressive mid range, to try and get the note to come through.

That sounds interesting, how do you mean more aggressive midrange? What would you be looking for?