7 String Tone Help Needed

Brett - K A L I S I A said:
Thanks Shane,

Yeah, I figured the 7 strings version of the 81 (81-7 then) was the way to go for the neck =) It's weird that those models are not listed in EMG's website tho...

Yeah the 81-7 and 707DC are hard to find (unless you buy a guitar with them factory-installed.) EMG doesn't sell them to the general public, I think they're only available for manufacturers and endorsees. I could be wrong about this but that's the general scoop I've gotten.
 
I've been playing bolt-on Ibanez 7-strings for a long time now.

The major difficiency on these guitars is usually the pickups.

And - there are TWO problems with the pickups:

1. They suck.
2. They are direct mounted.

I don't know who decided that direct mounting the pickups would give you better low-end or whatever the fuck the Ibanez ads in '97 said, but it was a fucking dumb idea.

Direct mounting puts the pickup as far away from the strings as possible giving you a hollow sound with nowhere near enough bite.

A quick and dirty solution to get better tone on these guitars is to take out the pickup screws and wedge something under the pickups to get them up higher, then reinstall the screws.

Go ahead and laugh, but in a pinch I raised the pickups on my first 7-string by jamming a bunch of Q-Tips underneath of it since they fit and there was nothing else handy. That's an instant tone improvement.

A better solution is to get yourself some humbucker rings and mount them the way they're supposed to be done. I'm sure this is why a lot of metal guys seem to favor the LTD 7-string designs. They're the same crap wood as the low-end Ibanez guitars, with a pickup that's no better than the stock Ibanez junk, but the fact that the pickup is closer to the strings gives you a better sound.

The best solution would be to replace the pickups with something which actually has some balls to it. And here's where I think a lot of people go wrong when they're playing the styles of music that are being discussed on this board.

You can't read a guitar magazine or guitar forum and listen to what these people are telling you is THE BEST PICKUP IN THE WORLD or THE BEST TONE EVER because they might be right - but they're talking about a totally different world. Blues and rock guys can get away with putting a Tone Zone or a Duncan '59 in a guitar and have a great tone that works in their situation.

But, if you're trying to play our brand of heavy music, the midrange boost on that kind of pickup is going to ruin your sound. It'll never cut through the mix right and it will never sound like you want it to.

Look for something which offers a good output level and CLARITY. The clarity is the most important thing so that you get good note definition when you're playing through a high-gain amp. You should be able to hear the notes that make up each chord rather than a big buzzy lump of sound.

I personally achieve this by using DiMarzio pickups. I have the Steve's Special in my 6-string guitars and the Blaze in my 7-string guitars. Both of these pickups are very closely related. They are actually closer in sound to each other than comparing a Tone Zone to a Tone Zone-7.

They have a very high output, which drives the input stage of your amp very nicely (in fact, I have never had to use a Tube Screamer or anything of that sort...) and the midrange is scooped out to give you the note definition.

By nature of design, to make a pickup louder you wind more wire around it. By winding more wire around it, you increase the midrange boost as well. These two pickups avoid that by using different windings on the two coils so you get high output without the muddy shit that comes from the mid boost.

And before anyone starts - I know the prevailing preference on this site seems to be for EMG pickups. That's fine and dandy - but if you've never tried anything else and you're using the EMG's because Loomis & Dino use them, or because Jaymz & Kirk have been using them forever then I highly recommend you try a few other things before you are absolutely sure what's for you. And that even goes for the pickups I'm recommending. Try them out. See what you think. Then try some more.

There's going to be something that gets YOUR SOUND out of your guitar and your amp, and it might not be the same thing that everyone else is using.

As far as trying out what I'm suggesting - swing by one of your major music retailers. Guitar Center... whatever... They usually have an Ibanez Universe hanging on the wall.

The Universe is a basswood body just like all the cheap Ibanez-7's out there. It's a maple neck, also the same thing. It does have a much nicer build quality than the Korean junk, tho, and there is a Blaze pickup in the bridge position. The pickguard serves the same purpose as a humbucker ring - so you can hear what a non-direct mounted pickup can sound like. Plug it in and let some of your riffs rip - hopefully through something like your normal amp. Or run it thru an HD-147 on the 5150 setting...

You can bitch about bolt-on necks and cheap wood all day long, but in the end the one thing in your guitar which has the single biggest affect on your tone is the pickups. Take the same guitar with the same neck and the same pickups and bolt it to a basswood body. Call that tone "A." Now, bolt all that shit to a mahogany body. Call that tone "A-1." The general character is still the same. The mahogany body is going to give you a tighter, brighter sound while the basswood is softer and rounder with a bit more low growl.

The tone is 95% the same on both guitars due to the pickups - the wood can change some of the characteristics, but they are minor in comparison to the changes you get between different pickups.

Sorry for writing a book - I just don't want anybody to think they can't work with what they have. In the end it's all music and you should never put off creating and playing to wait for the day when you have some kind of "better" gear...

ryan
 
KelThuz said:
did anyone mention that for achieving good 7-string sound you need Ernie Ball "Not even slinky" strings , especially when downtuning?

I use D'addario's .010 .046 plus a D'addario bass string .065 and My Ibanez RG7321 with EMG 707 sounds very very good.

I changed the wiring, though, I have one volume for pickup, no tone and the three way selector is bottom-bridge pup, the three intermediate-both pups, high-neck pup.
 
hourglass said:
I've been playing bolt-on Ibanez 7-strings for a long time now.

The major difficiency on these guitars is usually the pickups.

And - there are TWO problems with the pickups:

1. They suck.
2. They are direct mounted.

I don't know who decided that direct mounting the pickups would give you better low-end or whatever the fuck the Ibanez ads in '97 said, but it was a fucking dumb idea.

Direct mounting puts the pickup as far away from the strings as possible giving you a hollow sound with nowhere near enough bite.

A quick and dirty solution to get better tone on these guitars is to take out the pickup screws and wedge something under the pickups to get them up higher, then reinstall the screws.

Go ahead and laugh, but in a pinch I raised the pickups on my first 7-string by jamming a bunch of Q-Tips underneath of it since they fit and there was nothing else handy. That's an instant tone improvement.

A better solution is to get yourself some humbucker rings and mount them the way they're supposed to be done. I'm sure this is why a lot of metal guys seem to favor the LTD 7-string designs. They're the same crap wood as the low-end Ibanez guitars, with a pickup that's no better than the stock Ibanez junk, but the fact that the pickup is closer to the strings gives you a better sound.

The best solution would be to replace the pickups with something which actually has some balls to it. And here's where I think a lot of people go wrong when they're playing the styles of music that are being discussed on this board.

You can't read a guitar magazine or guitar forum and listen to what these people are telling you is THE BEST PICKUP IN THE WORLD or THE BEST TONE EVER because they might be right - but they're talking about a totally different world. Blues and rock guys can get away with putting a Tone Zone or a Duncan '59 in a guitar and have a great tone that works in their situation.

But, if you're trying to play our brand of heavy music, the midrange boost on that kind of pickup is going to ruin your sound. It'll never cut through the mix right and it will never sound like you want it to.

Look for something which offers a good output level and CLARITY. The clarity is the most important thing so that you get good note definition when you're playing through a high-gain amp. You should be able to hear the notes that make up each chord rather than a big buzzy lump of sound.

I personally achieve this by using DiMarzio pickups. I have the Steve's Special in my 6-string guitars and the Blaze in my 7-string guitars. Both of these pickups are very closely related. They are actually closer in sound to each other than comparing a Tone Zone to a Tone Zone-7.

They have a very high output, which drives the input stage of your amp very nicely (in fact, I have never had to use a Tube Screamer or anything of that sort...) and the midrange is scooped out to give you the note definition.

By nature of design, to make a pickup louder you wind more wire around it. By winding more wire around it, you increase the midrange boost as well. These two pickups avoid that by using different windings on the two coils so you get high output without the muddy shit that comes from the mid boost.

And before anyone starts - I know the prevailing preference on this site seems to be for EMG pickups. That's fine and dandy - but if you've never tried anything else and you're using the EMG's because Loomis & Dino use them, or because Jaymz & Kirk have been using them forever then I highly recommend you try a few other things before you are absolutely sure what's for you. And that even goes for the pickups I'm recommending. Try them out. See what you think. Then try some more.

There's going to be something that gets YOUR SOUND out of your guitar and your amp, and it might not be the same thing that everyone else is using.

As far as trying out what I'm suggesting - swing by one of your major music retailers. Guitar Center... whatever... They usually have an Ibanez Universe hanging on the wall.

The Universe is a basswood body just like all the cheap Ibanez-7's out there. It's a maple neck, also the same thing. It does have a much nicer build quality than the Korean junk, tho, and there is a Blaze pickup in the bridge position. The pickguard serves the same purpose as a humbucker ring - so you can hear what a non-direct mounted pickup can sound like. Plug it in and let some of your riffs rip - hopefully through something like your normal amp. Or run it thru an HD-147 on the 5150 setting...

You can bitch about bolt-on necks and cheap wood all day long, but in the end the one thing in your guitar which has the single biggest affect on your tone is the pickups. Take the same guitar with the same neck and the same pickups and bolt it to a basswood body. Call that tone "A." Now, bolt all that shit to a mahogany body. Call that tone "A-1." The general character is still the same. The mahogany body is going to give you a tighter, brighter sound while the basswood is softer and rounder with a bit more low growl.

The tone is 95% the same on both guitars due to the pickups - the wood can change some of the characteristics, but they are minor in comparison to the changes you get between different pickups.

Sorry for writing a book - I just don't want anybody to think they can't work with what they have. In the end it's all music and you should never put off creating and playing to wait for the day when you have some kind of "better" gear...

ryan

I think this the best post in this whole thread.

I'm planning on getting a Steve Special and an Air Norton in my Ibanez RG Prestige that I love to death...and I'm getting a RG1527 Prestige 7 string this week that I plan on puting in an air norton 7 in the neck and either a Blaze CUSTOM or a DSonic in the bridge.

If you didn't guess yet...I'm a John Petrucci fan heh.

I'll have to try out that raising the pickup thing. Sounds interesting
 
I'm not a big fan of EMGs at all...They have a sound to them I just don't like as much as a passive, everyone has them in metal it seems so we're all trying to get the same time, I want something different, and the cleans...I don't want to have to roll back my volume just to get it clean.
 
ThatGuitarGuy said:
I'm not a big fan of EMGs at all...They have a sound to them I just don't like as much as a passive, everyone has them in metal it seems so we're all trying to get the same time, I want something different, and the cleans...I don't want to have to roll back my volume just to get it clean.

Preferences are preferences, but if you like Andy's recordings, 95% of them have involved EMGs. There's a lot of tonal variation to be had with EMGs, and I don't have to roll back my volume for cleans. I'm not trying to get the "same sound" as anyone; EMGs helped me to achieve the sound I've always wanted.

Go with what you like, but I wonder if you've given EMGs a proper chance.
 
yeah, I've used many guitars with them installed. I really didn't care about it as much. Yeah I like Andy's recordings, but that is a style thats more of my outlet and liking for listening to. It's fun to play now and then, but I'm more of a progressive rock/metal type of person...so I tend to like passives more. What I listen to doesn't mean its what I play if that makes sense?

But yes, preferences indeed.
 
I'm for passive and active, I like passive pick up for the dinamic range ( active pick up have not the dinamic reange of a passive one ) and active pick up for clarity and definition...
I'm disagre about this fact: The sound of the guitar for me is the 70% the wood not the pick ups, I have a lot of experience in this...If you have a shit guitar with a 1 milion dollar pick up the sound will be problably better but always shitty tone.
 
Kazrog said:
I will say this - don't fuck around with passives on a 7 string. EMG 707s sound 10x better.

Coem on Karzog ... you know thats not true, its all personal taste. I put a 707 in my custom 7 string and i didnt like it at all. I went back to my original Paf 7's .... The just had a better low end response in my guitar than the 707's

Da Fukn Guru
 
From what I've read from many people that have tried out pickups in different guitars...the wood doesnt make as much of a difference as the pickup...

man...all the guitar debates that will NEVER get settled lol.

Both of my Ibanez guitars are basswood so...yeah.

I just got a 7 string today! YAY! RG1527 w00t!
 
I've got a Tone Zone 7 and Air Norton 7 in my UV777 (stock single coil, which is off 99% of the time anyway), and an Evo 7 and Air Norton 7 in my RG2127X. When I'm not feeling too lazy to take my RG7620 in to have the frets worked on, I'll put an Air Norton 7 in the neck of that too, and try a Blaze Custom in the bridge.

I've never really been an EMG fan; the sound/"feel" just never really did it for me. That said, I'm not a flat-out metal guy either. My band's music ranges from "extreme" metal like to very laid mellow stuff, and what I listen to (and sometimes noodle along to on guitar) ranges from Amon Amarth, to Queensryche, to Queen, to Roy Orbison, to Mahavishnu Orchestra, to John Farnham, etc.