In the Studio: Help Needed

[silverwulf]

OK, we're in a buddy's home studio now and recording, and I need some advice on a couple of issues. We've completed the drum tracks now, and they turned out pretty decent. Now we've moved on to the guitars.

The guy who owns the gear has a stern mentality when it comes to recording guitars. He's very set in his ways, and I need some advice on how to properly mic and record the heavy rhythm. We're using EMG 81 equipped guitars into a '94 Mesa Dual Recto with a Mesa Recto (Traditional Sized, Straight) 4X12 Cab. I've always been "taught" to try using a single mic at first (we're using SM-57's) about an inch to an inch and a half from the grill cloth, and about an inch off the center of the cone and to work from there.

Well, the guy slaps two SM-57's on the cab (the top 2 speakers) seemingly at random. I recommended we get a flashlight and find the center of the cone and work from there. He said he didn't like mic'ing amps near the center of the cone and he positioned both mic's about a few inches from the center of the cone, one was only a few inches from the edge of the speaker, which I've always been taught leads to a muddier sound. We recorded two quick rhythms yesterday (all we had time for), and I wasn't ovetrly pleased with the sound. It wasn't terrible, but I know it can be better.

So, my question now is how would you try recording the rhythm guitars? Any suggestions on dealing with an ego-mainiac in the studio that thinks his way is best, even when he hears the guitars are too muddy? We're trying to not push too mnay of his buttons because he's recording us for free.

Any suggestions on dealing with him, and tracking/mic'ing the guitars would be greatly appreciated!

 

[unsilpauly]

OK, we're in a buddy's home studio now and recording, and I need some advice on a couple of issues. We've completed the drum tracks now, and they turned out pretty decent. Now we've moved on to the guitars.

The guy who owns the gear has a stern mentality when it comes to recording guitars. He's very set in his ways, and I need some advice on how to properly mic and record the heavy rhythm. We're using EMG 81 equipped guitars into a '94 Mesa Dual Recto with a Mesa Recto (Traditional Sized, Straight) 4X12 Cab. I've always been "taught" to try using a single mic at first (we're using SM-57's) about an inch to an inch and a half from the grill cloth, and about an inch off the center of the cone and to work from there.

Well, the guy slaps two SM-57's on the cab (the top 2 speakers) seemingly at random. I recommended we get a flashlight and find the center of the cone and work from there. He said he didn't like mic'ing amps near the center of the cone and he positioned both mic's about a few inches from the center of the cone, one was only a few inches from the edge of the speaker, which I've always been taught leads to a muddier sound. We recorded two quick rhythms yesterday (all we had time for), and I wasn't ovetrly pleased with the sound. It wasn't terrible, but I know it can be better.

So, my question now is how would you try recording the rhythm guitars? Any suggestions on dealing with an ego-mainiac in the studio that thinks his way is best, even when he hears the guitars are too muddy? We're trying to not push too mnay of his buttons because he's recording us for free.

Any suggestions on dealing with him, and tracking/mic'ing the guitars would be greatly appreciated!

hey there. if hes recording you for free, you should offer him a couple of bucks to try it your way(like tell him youll give him some dough for an hour of tryin the guitars your way). he should try what the band wants anyway. if he is that closed minded hes probably the wrong guy for the job anyway. recording is all about doing whats best for the sound. at the very least maybe he will learn something from you. good luck.

 

[Lopes]

With regards to mic placement, your first instincts are generally a good place to start, but I do have to ask what your sound is like to begin with? Maybe he hears something in your sound that he believes his mic placement will help. Either way, if your not happy with it, the best way to deal with him is to be straight with him, but don't be snotty and insulting about it. Tell him that the sound just isn't working for you and you would like to try some different things to capture the sound you're looking for. If worse comes to worse, just D.I. the guitars and reamp them later.

 

[silverwulf]

...if he is that closed minded hes probably the wrong guy for the job anyway...

I agree with you there, but you can't beat FREE as a price when you have a limited budget to work with...

Thanks for the advice...keep it coming!

 

[silverwulf]

Also, what volume do you guys typically record at? I realize that every siuation different. Seems the Master around 10-11 o'clock seem s pretty common?

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

If your music is anything like everyone else's on this site, then there's no way I can imagine his placement taking precedence over yours.

That being said, I guess he’s got his own type of sound that works a certain way. If he’s doing it for free, then, my advice is to go ahead and mic it his way. The guitar’s wont sound as good, but at least you guys wont be at each other’s throats!

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Haha, or accidentally kick in the mic while he's looking the other way

 

[ATGuitar_NInja]

Man, I've done some quick mic placements in my day with sm-57's but two mics on the top speakers? why? Anyhow, what I've found produces a quite heavy sound is micing one of the bottom most speakers a on the edge of the cone. With the mic closer towards the center of the cab and not the outside edge, and the mic placed an inch or two from the grill of the cab. The amp really doesn't need to be too loud if you're gonna mic it and get some sweet tones. I haven't had a Dual Rect so I'm not sure what a good recording tone would be on that, but I have had a Triple XXX for a while and that I've heard is a rectifier basically just with it's own internal compressor deal....(obviously I am not gear savvy) But what I do know is that with the tone on that set to the classic metal V with 50% mids it was heavy as hell to the point where my speakers were not having the recording play back without clipping. Kinda like Nevermore's album Dreaming Neon Black...thick viscous guitar tone that crushes speakers. The basic rule as far as I know is that the closer to the center of the cone the bassier the tone and the further out on the cone the higher the tone. I suppose you could mic one speaker close in on the edge of the cone and one speaker on the outside to get a thick heavy and punchy sound...theoretically of course, I don't know I haven't tried it before. I've also heard that micing the back of the cab can add some low end or just atmosphere to the recording.

Oh yea, I do stuff for free to because I don't exactly know what I'm doing but I have a good idea, and if a band has some ideas I'd listen to them rather than telling them how I do it and if they don't like it fine. If this dude really wants to make it and get more business I see no reason why he shouldn't be willing to work with you if not he's an ass.

 

[silverwulf]

If your music is anything like everyone else's on this site, then there's no way I can imagine his placement taking precedence over yours.

That being said, I guess he’s got his own type of sound that works a certain way. If he’s doing it for free, then, my advice is to go ahead and mic it his way. The guitar’s wont sound as good, but at least you guys wont be at each other’s throats!

Yeah, this guy is a big "emo" fan, where as most everythiing I play is modern rock or heavy metal. Obviously our ideas of a good guitar sound is drastically different. I just don't get where he thinks his method of mic'ing is truly going to achieve that kind of sound I like. To an "emo" guy like him, I believe he associates the "nu-metal rumbling, loose bottom end tone" with "heavy." My bass is on about 11 o'clock right now, and there's plenty enough low end in the sound. He said "We can always dial in some more bass." I told "No thanks, I have a bass player for that."

 

[dbrax]

dude, if you are fitting the bill, i would chop @ him until he gets the sound you want. if you went to him because the end result was what you wanted, then let him do his thing. if your not sure, because he is just someone w/ a studio, then work his lazy ass a little. d. braxton henry

 

[MR NINE]

HEY!
Give him the link to this forum! Maybe he can learn something for his own good!

 

[silverwulf]

HEY!
Give him the link to this forum! Maybe he can learn something for his own good!

Too true... We'll see what we can do. He offered to do it, and considering the bands bank account is riding empty right now, it's hard to turn down a free demo/EP when you need one.

In the summer, we're heading out to a more advanced studio that will cost us a pretty penny. But, we need something until then. We'll see what happens I guess.

 

[blackcom]

Just ask him polite: "dude, is it okay if we just spend -two- minuttes micking it my way...i'm -really- curious to how it'll sound....pretty pretty please".

...and then when you do you'll go "WOW, just the sound i'm looking for..."...

if he still disagrees, punch him in the face.....just kiddin'....