7 String Tone Help Needed

[silverwulf]

So, I need some suggestions on things to do to get a better tone from a 7 string. I've never been a 7 string user myself, so any suggestions and advice is always appreciated. I've got a friends band who wants to track a demo soon, and I've offered to help them out some.

The clip below is from the band messing around. There's no bass on it, and the drums are actually just the bassist trying to keep a beat so the guitarist could mess around with some guitar parts. Nothing fancy, or mixed for that matter...just a few mics tossed up for the guitarist to play too. So, never mind the drums, focus on the guitars. The guitars get a little off track at times, but like I said...everything was a quick one off that took about 2 hours tops from the moment we started tossing mics up on drums to when were packing up to leave after laying down a few guitars. (As a side note, the room itself is a horrible sounding detached garage that they have carpet and opther things hanging up to try and pad down some).

If I recall correctly, the guitars were a Recto panned hard right and left, with a Tube Screamer in front. Single SM57 about an inch from the grill, not far off center of the cone. Mesa Recto 4X12 with V30's. The guitar was some low end Ibanez 7 string with stock pups. Right now, the guitar sound is lacking a lot, just can't figure out what exactly. So, take a listen if you get a chance and give some suggestions on things that can be done to improve this guitar sound. We'd like to try and figure out how to correct some flaws before we even attempt to do any "real" recording. Thanks!

http://www.jbeard.ho8.com/sample.mp3

EDIT: Just glanced at the tracks, and I see my buddy actually blended some drum samples in there to make them tolerable...haha

 

[Suicide_As_Alibi]

My first suggestion would be to lose the Ibanez and get a better 7-string. I used to sing for a band where on guitarist used one, and the other used a Yamaha Pacifica (both in standard tuning) - the Yahama sounded far better than the Ibanez ever did. Seriously, if you can get a good sound from it you deserve some kind of medal.

Steve

 

[silverwulf]

My first suggestion would be to lose the Ibanez and get a better 7-string. I used to sing for a band where on guitarist used one, and the other used a Yamaha Pacifica (both in standard tuning) - the Yahama sounded far better than the Ibanez ever did. Seriously, if you can get a good sound from it you deserve some kind of medal.

Steve

Well, we'll just have to work with what the guitarist has. I don't even know what model it is, but it's some low to mid range series with stock pups. Probably one of those older $500 jobs. I mentioined a few others to him, like the new Schecter Hellraiser. He's contemplating getting a Petrucci model, but ther'es something like a 4-5 month wait on them.

 

[Nebulous]

If that was me, id be trying to get a bit more highs out of the amp to brighten it up a bit. And to compensate for the fact that its a ball-less Ibanez, id mix that mic technique with the Nordstrom dual 57 placement.
All depends on what sound you're going for realy...

 

[silverwulf]

If that was me, id be trying to get a bit more highs out of the amp to brighten it up a bit. And to compensate for the fact that its a ball-less Ibanez, id mix that mic technique with the Nordstrom dual 57 placement.
All depends on what sound you're going for realy...

We may have to try using another 57 on there. One doesn't seem to be cutting it. I should have a 421 on the way soon. Maybe I'll try to blend those 2 and see what we can get. Normally the amp has plenty of high end, but that room we were in seems to suck the life out of the treble of everything. You wouldn't think it would matter much because of the cab being close mic'd, but there's definitely an audible difference.

 

[evilmanny]

I remember using the stock p ups on my Ibanez S7420... horrible things. really mushy sounding, no real definition or tone going on. Got myself a 707 as soon as I could. I would think those stock p ups are the thing that's doing most harm to your sound, so if you can beg, borrow or steal another 7 string with EMG or at least something that isn't stock for the recording, do so.

 

[DNW]

My first suggestion would be to lose the Ibanez and get a better 7-string. I used to sing for a band where on guitarist used one, and the other used a Yamaha Pacifica (both in standard tuning) - the Yahama sounded far better than the Ibanez ever did. Seriously, if you can get a good sound from it you deserve some kind of medal.

Steve

I own three Ibanez 7-strings, plus another one that's a bit iffy (problematic Ebay deal, might be going back, I dunno yet... the guitar itself is sweet though...), and they're all great instruments. Yes, the stock pickups can be pretty bollocks, but with good pickups, they're fine instruments.

 

[Suicide_As_Alibi]

I own three Ibanez 7-strings, plus another one that's a bit iffy (problematic Ebay deal, might be going back, I dunno yet... the guitar itself is sweet though...), and they're all great instruments. Yes, the stock pickups can be pretty bollocks, but with good pickups, they're fine instruments.

Ha, well the first one in that band was a brand new, mid-range one (about £650 new), and the first time we got on stage with it the input fell out. Not the lead, the entire fucking jack fell out of the guitar - the barrell, nut and wires just dropped out of the jack plate with the lead still in it. The two notes he managed to get out of it beforehand were disgusting, but at the time I put it down to the fact the guitar was screwed.

Then he got a replacement, and somehow that sounded even worse! Even once he'd dropped EMG's in it was rank - though at least that one stayed in one piece. It was the worse sounding guitar I've EVER heard, even worse than the £50 unbranded plank I learnt on.

Steve

 

[eaeolian]

I remember using the stock p ups on my Ibanez S7420... horrible things. really mushy sounding, no real definition or tone going on. Got myself a 707 as soon as I could. I would think those stock p ups are the thing that's doing most harm to your sound, so if you can beg, borrow or steal another 7 string with EMG or at least something that isn't stock for the recording, do so.

I'd agree, the stock PUs are pretty mushy and crappy. To brighten that up, have him swap it out for a Blaze, or an EVO 7 if he can find one - I don't like them in other guitars, but in the basswood Ibbys they work pretty well. EMGs would help, too, but they're a little invasive...

 

[guitarguru777]

may want to try the Audix to brighten things up a bit. Mabe some new Pups.... If he can throw down for a 707 that wouls help greatly.... Mabe a tad more input into the amp, turn the volume up on the TS a bit...

Have him palmute closer to the bridge ... hes muting the string too much, killing its output. hes also picking REALLY REALY LIGHT ... theres no attack on the guitars. Almost sounds as if the volume on the guitar isnt all teh way up.

 

[eaeolian]

hes also picking REALLY REALY LIGHT ... theres no attack on the guitars. Almost sounds as if the volume on the guitar isnt all teh way up.

That's true, on a second listen. It's metal, dammit, hit the damn thing.

 

[guitarguru777]

That's true, on a second listen. It's metal, dammit, hit the damn thing.

The guys mentioned pertrucci, so im guessing this is some kind of Petrucci influenced prog / metal hybrid ..... If so ...

Too much Prog not enouth MET'L in his playing.

Have him listen to some Meshuggah or Necrophagist then have him play his parts again .... lol

Da Fukn Trukn Guru

 

[silverwulf]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm definitely going to try and find a 7 string to borrow for this guy. Those stock pup's are just dull and lifeless, and it'll be an uphill battle.

It's so funny that you guys mention his pick attack and palm muting style, because I mentioned the exact same thing to my buddy who was there with me. We were jamming for a while before those guys got there at their spot, and my buddy just kept raving about how great the sound was. That was when we were playing, and we both use EMG loaded guitars and have a hard pick attack when we play. We play like you should on a tube amp IMO...let your pick attack do the work. Well, the moment this guy plugs in, immediately the attack and bite went away in the sound. My buddy turns to me with that "What happened?" look, because the sound was drastically different. That's when I told him to pay attention to how this guy plays...he has no pick attack. He attempts to play metal rhythm with a light hand, as if he's trying to play a lead. He can shred for days with sweep picking, but doesn't know how to really dig in and get a good attack for rhythm.

So, I know that's going to be an uphill battle right there. Just goes to show how much tone actually comes from the hands. I wish I would have saved the clips from when my buddy and I were messing around. The sound was like night and day.

 

[eaeolian]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm definitely going to try and find a 7 string to borrow for this guy. Those stock pup's are just dull and lifeless, and it'll be an uphill battle.

You're Jack Beard, right? Drop me a PM, and I'll see what I can do for ya.

 

[silverwulf]

You're Jack Beard, right? Drop me a PM, and I'll see what I can do for ya.

Sweet...that's me. I'll drop you a PM shortly.

 

[chadsxe]

id mix that mic technique with the Nordstrom dual 57 placement.

Not to be an ass or anything but why......it seems most people just like suggesting this to show they know about it (not saying you).....

 

[Kazrog]

EMG 707s are the way to go. However, if this 7 string is one of the bolt-on Ibenhad jobs with Agathis wood, 707s won't save it. Hellraiser C7 is definitely a good buy for the money.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

707 are 7 strings version of 85 right ? But I've read somewhere on this forum that there was a 7 strings version of the 81, but can't find it on EMG's website. Anybody knows about it ? Or could anyone recommand me any nice 7 strings active splitable (dual / single) pickups ?

 

[Kazrog]

707 are 7 strings version of 85 right ? But I've read somewhere on this forum that there was a 7 strings version of the 81, but can't find it on EMG's website. Anybody knows about it ? Or could anyone recommand me any nice 7 strings active splitable (dual / single) pickups ?

The 707 is based on the 85 but has a slightly different character to it. The 81-7 is the 7 string version of the 81, and the 707DC is the Dino Cazares version of the 707, which is somewhere between an 85 and 81 in tone.

I don't know of any active coil splitting pickups for 7 strings, but the 81-7 is great sounding as a neck pickup for cleans and leads.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Thanks Shane,

Yeah, I figured the 7 strings version of the 81 (81-7 then) was the way to go for the neck =) It's weird that those models are not listed in EMG's website tho...