Against The Grain

[nsavan]

Right now it's "popular" to hate George W. Bush. If you look at most
peoples' answers, they are all pretty much the same. War, oil, etc..
If it was about oil, do you think gas would be as expensive as it is? I
think not. It would be cheap. Everyone who opposes George W. Bush
thinks he's just out to make war for the fun of it. Well, ask the near
one million dead kurds who were killed by Saddam Hussein if it was the
wrong thing to do. Ask the prisoners who were iraqi citizens that were
thrown into Abu Grabbe prison who were raped, tortured, and maimed for
fun if it was the wrong thing to do. Saddam didn't kill all those
people with squirt guns, now did he? I think chemical and germ warfare
is classified as "weapons of mass destruction" and that's exactly what
he used. He used them in the Iran/Iraq war, it's documented, look it
up. To say Iraq didn't possess weapons of mass destruction is absurd.
Saddam kicked out UN weapons inspectors for 12 years. That's a lot of
time to burry your toys in the sandbox kids!...and for all you know,
some terrorist cell that had direct ties to Saddam Hussein (yes, that's
right, there's ties and proof and names and numbers of the terrorists
being financed by Saddam Hussein, look it up again!) might have some of
those weapons that don't exist and is planning on using them on you
someday in the near future. Are people really that blind? Saddam
Hussein is a weapon of mass destruction. He shot at our planes time and
time again in international airspace, he refused to cooperate with the
UN (that means the entire UN, not the united states). We went into iraq
with a coalition of forces, not alone despite popular hype. Jonh Kerry
for all you democrats out there, he voted WITH George W. Bush to use
force against Iraq. He as well as everyone else had the same
intelligence as George Bush, so now for Kerry to say he is against the
war, is just insanity. With more and more terrorism on the rise, you
are going to someday know that this war isn't going to just be against
the U.S., it's going to be against every peace loving nation on earth.
This is a war of muslim extremists who want to basically destroy anyone
who isn't muslim. Russia, Europe, and everyone else have been dragged
into it...and basically things have and will change for everyone whether
you want to accept it or not. We all want peace, but sometimes you have
to stick up for yourself like the kid in the schoolyard and go after the
problem directly, and that's exactly what we did and what will continue
to do so that a peaceful world might someday flourish in the near future.

 

[Hawng]

Dude, One thing I have learned over the past year talking about politics is that the Kerry flock (aka the Sheep) are willing to vote for a traitor, someone who has proved time and again that he will tell you what ever you want to hear...................... as long as you vote for him. Fuck him...........

 

[T_man357]

That's just the Clinton in him coming out.

Democrat = Used Car Salesman


[tell you what ever you want to hear............... as long as you vote for him.[/QUOTE]

 

[Buzzard]

Right now it's "popular" to hate George W. Bush. If you look at most
peoples' answers, they are all pretty much the same. War, oil, etc..
If it was about oil, do you think gas would be as expensive as it is? I
think not. It would be cheap. Everyone who opposes George W. Bush
thinks he's just out to make war for the fun of it. Well, ask the near
one million dead kurds who were killed by Saddam Hussein if it was the
wrong thing to do. Ask the prisoners who were iraqi citizens that were
thrown into Abu Grabbe prison who were raped, tortured, and maimed for
fun if it was the wrong thing to do. Saddam didn't kill all those
people with squirt guns, now did he? I think chemical and germ warfare
is classified as "weapons of mass destruction" and that's exactly what
he used. He used them in the Iran/Iraq war, it's documented, look it
up. To say Iraq didn't possess weapons of mass destruction is absurd.
Saddam kicked out UN weapons inspectors for 12 years. That's a lot of
time to burry your toys in the sandbox kids!...and for all you know,
some terrorist cell that had direct ties to Saddam Hussein (yes, that's
right, there's ties and proof and names and numbers of the terrorists
being financed by Saddam Hussein, look it up again!) might have some of
those weapons that don't exist and is planning on using them on you
someday in the near future. Are people really that blind? Saddam
Hussein is a weapon of mass destruction. He shot at our planes time and
time again in international airspace, he refused to cooperate with the
UN (that means the entire UN, not the united states). We went into iraq
with a coalition of forces, not alone despite popular hype. Jonh Kerry
for all you democrats out there, he voted WITH George W. Bush to use
force against Iraq. He as well as everyone else had the same
intelligence as George Bush, so now for Kerry to say he is against the
war, is just insanity. With more and more terrorism on the rise, you
are going to someday know that this war isn't going to just be against
the U.S., it's going to be against every peace loving nation on earth.
This is a war of muslim extremists who want to basically destroy anyone
who isn't muslim. Russia, Europe, and everyone else have been dragged
into it...and basically things have and will change for everyone whether
you want to accept it or not. We all want peace, but sometimes you have
to stick up for yourself like the kid in the schoolyard and go after the
problem directly, and that's exactly what we did and what will continue
to do so that a peaceful world might someday flourish in the near future.

"Yo everybody, This is one of my best friends JAson Z from the band "New society of Anarchists" - show him the respect he deserves and welcome his ass. He is a republican- woo hoo

 

[bobo'c]

Welcome to the board brother.

 

[MyHatred]

That's just the Clinton in him coming out.

Democrat = Used Car Salesman

 

[Hawng]

:LOL:


welcome to the board .....................

 

[G-Master]

Right now it's "popular" to hate George W. Bush. If you look at most
peoples' answers, they are all pretty much the same. War, oil, etc..
If it was about oil, do you think gas would be as expensive as it is? I
think not. It would be cheap. Everyone who opposes George W. Bush
thinks he's just out to make war for the fun of it. Well, ask the near
one million dead kurds who were killed by Saddam Hussein if it was the
wrong thing to do. Ask the prisoners who were iraqi citizens that were
thrown into Abu Grabbe prison who were raped, tortured, and maimed for
fun if it was the wrong thing to do. Saddam didn't kill all those
people with squirt guns, now did he? I think chemical and germ warfare
is classified as "weapons of mass destruction" and that's exactly what
he used. He used them in the Iran/Iraq war, it's documented, look it
up. To say Iraq didn't possess weapons of mass destruction is absurd.
Saddam kicked out UN weapons inspectors for 12 years. That's a lot of
time to burry your toys in the sandbox kids!...and for all you know,
some terrorist cell that had direct ties to Saddam Hussein (yes, that's
right, there's ties and proof and names and numbers of the terrorists
being financed by Saddam Hussein, look it up again!) might have some of
those weapons that don't exist and is planning on using them on you
someday in the near future. Are people really that blind? Saddam
Hussein is a weapon of mass destruction. He shot at our planes time and
time again in international airspace, he refused to cooperate with the
UN (that means the entire UN, not the united states). We went into iraq
with a coalition of forces, not alone despite popular hype. Jonh Kerry
for all you democrats out there, he voted WITH George W. Bush to use
force against Iraq. He as well as everyone else had the same
intelligence as George Bush, so now for Kerry to say he is against the
war, is just insanity. With more and more terrorism on the rise, you
are going to someday know that this war isn't going to just be against
the U.S., it's going to be against every peace loving nation on earth.
This is a war of muslim extremists who want to basically destroy anyone
who isn't muslim. Russia, Europe, and everyone else have been dragged
into it...and basically things have and will change for everyone whether
you want to accept it or not. We all want peace, but sometimes you have
to stick up for yourself like the kid in the schoolyard and go after the
problem directly, and that's exactly what we did and what will continue
to do so that a peaceful world might someday flourish in the near future.

Finally another individual that has some intelligence about him. Thank you for saying that there were ties between Hussein and the terrorists, there is proof all over the fucking place, look it up. Hussein had the funds for their training and what not. Any idiot that chooses not to accept that Saddam was involved with the terrorist is evidently braindead ... move to France please.

Welcome to the board man.

P.S. Yes people are that blind these days in America. Peace on earth won't happen, at best ill actions can be tamed temporarily, but there will always be a psycho to deal with. Try telling this to the disillusioned liberals and their ridiculous hippie-esque beliefs for no wars and all peace. Please. :Smug:

 

[MyHatred]

Not sure that it is against the grain when the world is split on who they want president..It is just as popular to hate Kerry( I don't enthusastically endorse him but I like his policies better than Bush). So I am going to spew some of my "liberal bullshit" to you guys. This is an excerpt from Playboy, I agree with them that I don't want some messenger of God to be running the country. Abortion should be legal and it will not be if there is another 4 years with our current leader. I am not really trying to start an abortion discussion but I am a definite pro-choice advocate, a man should not have control over what a woman does with her body and if they did that would seem pretty damn Muslim to me if we did don't ya think?

Well here is that article that is sure to piss some off but that is never my intention I try not to call the Republican party names and whatever because at the end of the day we have to work together to get things done...Besides not all Republicans are bad....Just the ones that you elect hehehe( Just had to add that in there because of my previous statement) I just have to toss my worthless 2 cents in now again because I am pretty much the lone democrat here. I do get along pretty well with ya guys though, politics aside I could say that I would drink a beer with ya. Mind you I am not trying to convert anyone to vote my way because I know who that would be like talking to a tree because I made my mind up long ago and I know you guys have too.


In the summer of 1985, while visiting his parents in Maine, W. took a walk with Billy Graham who asked W, "Are you right with God," W. answered, "No but I want to be". He was born again and gave up drinking, smoking and chewing. In 1999 he said to members of a Southern Baptist convention that he believed God wanted him to run for president. Now W. is fighting a holy war predicated on his religious convictions, much the same at Osama fights for his fanatical interpretation of the creed of Muhammad. His views of this is that they are trying to kill Christians and we Christians will strike back and with more force and more ferocity than they will ever know. There is no question that the president's faith is real, genuine, and there is no question that it is calculated, Douglas Wead an Assemblies of God evangelist. The rise of Protestant evangelicals as a political force has restructured American politics and President W. is taking full advantage. In recent years the Protestant right has forged an alliance with right wing Catholics over abortion and with right wing Jews over the Holy Land. Now the Protestant evangelicals are more respected and politically potent. Karl Rove, W. political wizard is evidently worried about less than the maximum turnout among evangelicals. W. father had alienated the religious right, one of the reasons for his defeat in 1992. According to the New York Times the campaign is asking conservative churches and churchgoers to do everything they can to turn their churches into bases of support without violating campaign finance laws or jeopardizing their tax exempt status. The Times in August described the weekly conference call between the White House and conservative Christian Leaders. Meanwhile the Republican leadership in the House of Representatives introduced a bill that would permit a limited number of violations of the rules against political endorsements. The Bush presidency is the first faith based presidency in the history of the United States. White House staffer told David Aikman, author of the W. book a Man of Faith that he estimated there are at least seven separate bible studies meeting every week in the White House involving 200 of the 500 people on staff. All presumable on tax payer time. W. first executive order as president was to set up in the White House the Office of Faith Based and Community Initiatives to steer federal funds into religious organizations set up to help the needy. So far over a billion dollars have been sent to religious organizations. W. is unique in that he applies extensive religious test to secular problems, i.e., stem cell, same sex marriage wanting schools to teach creationism as well as evolution. He withheld 34 million from the UN Population Fund because China might use some in programs that could involve abortion, so the rest of the women did not get any family planning help. Lincoln had the most acute religious insight of all American presidents. He was intensely aware of the unfathomable distance between the Supreme Being and erring mortals, and he would have agreed with Hawthorne that to claim knowledge of divine will and purpose was the unpardonable sin. Self righteousness was the existential curse. How Lincoln would have rejoiced in Mr. Dooley's definition of a fanatic, A fanatic does what he thinks the Lord would do if he only knew the facts in the case. The most dangerous people in the world today are those who convince themselves that they execute the will of the Almighty. W. should read Lincoln and others in order to understand the limits on human knowledge of the divine purpose. Bottom line, honor the wisdom of the founding fathers and the seperation of church and state.

 

[Sepsis]

We all want peace, but sometimes you have
to stick up for yourself like the kid in the schoolyard and go after the
problem directly, and that's exactly what we did and what will continue
to do so that a peaceful world might someday flourish in the near future.

Signed!!!1oneone!! The rest of that post was brilliant too. God bless you, sir.

God bless,
Sepsis

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

Great post! Welcome to the board!

 

[CoverUinOil]

about the whole religion thing...didnt the pilgrims come here bcs they were persecuted by the chuch in europe????

 

[Hawng]

about the whole religion thing...didnt the pilgrims come here bcs they were persecuted by the chuch in europe????

yes, and thats why now we have every religion in the world here in america

 

[Arg_Hamster]

Speaking of religion and sects... had the fucking Jehovas here last night... LUCKILY I HAD SATANS MUSIC (THE HAUNTED) IN THE CD-PLAYER! It must be a bitter life being a Jehova, basing your life on a vision of fear and hate instead of trust and love. Don´t think they´d really want me as a member, hahahaha!

 

[Sepsis]

^ indeed. Fear and hate suck. My question about JWs is that if only 144000 people are getting into heaven, why are they trying to get more converts? I've never had problems with Jehovah's Witnesses here. It's Mormons. I'm Catholic, and I have looked very carefully at all sides to reach my conclusion. I try to leave people alone because I'm not likely to convince anyone and I'll just look stupid trying. Religion is a personal choice insofar as no one can believe in God for anyone else.

God bless,
Sepsis

 

[Scurvy]

First of all, I don't hate Bush. I don't even know the man personally. However, I feel like mentioning that disagreeing with Bush's policies has nothing to do with being "popular". Bush isn't popular for a few reasons. I'll go through them quickly because I don't want to start debates on each individual topic in one thread.

* The Iraq war thing. Although some good may have come out of it (Saddam was certainly not a pleasant person), there's a whole lot of bad too. The occupation is messy (civilians and soldiers still dying), terrorism has not been subdued or lessened (beheadings, high likelihood of easy terrorist recruitment against the US) and Bush went against international advice, which sets a dangerous precedent for any world leader thinking about "liberating" a country. Simply, it wasn't thought through or handled very well. I also believe that the motivations weren't 100% honourable.
Footnote on oil: your missing the point. High oil prices mean more money for oil companies (e.g. people like Cheney). You're paying more for gas but they don't give a shit - it's lining their pockets. Unrest like this only pushes oil prices up. Having control of Iraq's oil will have advantages in the future when the US's supplies start to dwindle and oil companies are free to start drilling for oil in Iraq. It's a win-win situation for the likes of US oil companies.

* Relgious dogma. Bush wants to push his religious ideals on the American people. Banning abortions. Discriminating against homos. Banning genetic research. These things need sensible discussion based on the needs of ALL the American people, not Bush's church (in fact, stuff like marriage shouldn't have anything to do with the government). I'm an atheist and I'd find his reasons for passing laws worrying if he was my president.

* Making the Free World Less Free. I suppose all I need to say is Patriot Act.

* This may sound irrelevant to some people but I have to say Bush comes off as a bit of an idiot. I know we like to choose our leaders on the policies but their personal manner plays a big part too and I just can't take him seriously. Cheney on the other hand is an evil genius. During the VP debate, I kept wondering why he wasn't president. Despite all the stuff I disagreed about, he came across as an intelligent person albeit evil. That way he can slink off into the shadows and leave poor old George in the shit when things get hairy.

I agree with what MHFYRD said - Kerry gets a lot of shit too and to be honest, that seems to be the way in politics. More effort is put into making the other guy look bad instead of pushing your own policies. Either way, I don't particularly agree with everything Kerry says although, if I had to choose between the two, I'd go with him. But only if I HAD to choose.

Anyway, it's all academic because I'm not American, I don't live in America and I can't vote for or against Bush. However, given the US's influence on the world, I think it's important to be interested in what's happening so I think I'm justified in at least rambling on here for a little while. I just wanted to emphasise that popular culture has no effect on my political opinions and I don't think there's any "grain" to go against when it comes to stating an opinion on the US elections. I'd say the US is pretty evenly divided at the moment.

PS - go and see Shaun of the Dead at the cinema. Excellent.

 

[CoverUinOil]

this is why i brought up the whole pilgrim thing, if they came here bcs they were persecuted by religion, then why does G.W pushes is religious beliefs so much, THAT kinda goes against the grain. Kerry stated that he would be president who happened to be christian, not a christian president, which i respect a little bit more.

 

[Joan of Arc]

Jehova's Witnesses? Lemme tell you about those ppl.

My in-laws are J.W.'s. I have nothing against them but my problem with them is that they don't respect what I believe, yet i am expected to respect them.

Everytime i turn around, i am going to hell for something, according to them.

They also informed me that all this child molesting shit that is going on in the catholic church would NEVER happen in their "hall". Yeah right.

So i did some research on the subject and found out otherwise. When you are a JW and this shit goes on, you are intimidated through fear to keep your mouth shut. If you need to see a counselor, you are only permitted to see one who is a JW himself. Fuckin nuts if you ask me. But don't bring up this shit to them, as they will have one of their little rehearsed answers that they always do.

Now i don't "hate" ol' dubya either, but i can't take the fact that he makes decisions based on what his religion tells him. Isn't the pres supposed to be a representative of the ppl of this country? He is not representing me that's for sure.

Why the hell does this man give a shit if women have abortions or gays get married? And who the hell is he to tell anyone what they can and can't do with their bodies? I swear i don't get him at all.

I can guarantee you that 4 more years of Bush and you can kiss a lot of these rights away. One more judge he appoints on the supreme court who feels as bush does, and abortions will become illegal. Ashcroft was also quoted as saying that "abortion and birth control are the same thing." I don't know where he gets that from, but he is just as nutty as Bush.

Geez, you would think a guy with the last name Bush would be more concerned with womens issues.

 

[MyHatred]

^ indeed. Fear and hate suck. My question about JWs is that if only 144000 people are getting into heaven, why are they trying to get more converts? I've never had problems with Jehovah's Witnesses here. It's Mormons. I'm Catholic, and I have looked very carefully at all sides to reach my conclusion. I try to leave people alone because I'm not likely to convince anyone and I'll just look stupid trying. Religion is a personal choice insofar as no one can believe in God for anyone else.

God bless,
Sepsis

Sepsis what do you mean by 144,000 people getting into heaven? I am not familiar with JW'S religion. ALso, how did they come to that number?

 

[Joan of Arc]

The number comes from the bible. It"s called the "little flock". After the 144,000 people get into heaven, the rest will "live here on a paradise called earth".

The 144,000 ppl who make it into heaven, will "watch over" the ppl left on earth.

Weird