Aggressive Atheism

[Silver Incubus]

Seriously. I would assume any godlike entity would not fit in nice 3rd dimension scientific boxes. Yet athiests insist that a godlike entity must fit into this box.

There is no box. There only is what is. And god like entities are not. No one knows.

PHYSICAL REALITY = REAL.....qualitative and quantitative. Texture/size etc and Number

OUR BRAINS: Interpret the external reality and translates it so that we can understand it better. The human brain is very prone to Hallucinations. God just happens to be one of them.

 

[Silver Incubus]

I don't think if atheists govern the world would make it a better place, really. A world governed by atheists is NOT a perfect world either.
I don't know why atheists, despite their indifference towards God, never stop talking and insulting (most of all) him. What's the difference between a person A who spends most of his time worshipping an non existing God and a person B who's insulting or complaining about A's way of life. NOTHING. They are both wasting their time in different ways.
As for evolution, I don't believe that apes are our incestors which was proven with Ardi. Apart from that, everything seems quite logical to me.


@Dakryn : I don't think that happiness is related to one's religious views only. It's up to their conception of life's virtue.

Why do religious people mock atheists and atheists never stop insulting the Gods of religions? Theological beliefs are not the cause, but it's people's sick mentality and intolerance. Humanity would be WAY better than what we are right now if we never CARED about each other's beliefs. All these debates about religion (and this thread included lol)with such nature are just a waste.of.time.

A's way of life impedes B's way of life. that is why, that should be very apparent.
That leads me to the next point perfectly. Religious beliefs being forced onto non believers because of legislation or tyranny. People must do good because it is the Right thing to do, the Just thing to do, and in order for society to function properly there has to be give and take by both parties.
Atheism would make the world better, not utopia. People are what people are and those things about them will not always change.

Theological beliefs are the cause of a sick mentality and intolerance.
Example A: Religious people vs Homosexuals
Example B: Religious wars, Religious Bombings, Massacre, ....and more!

So do you think that if the JEWS didn't claim Isreal back after WW2 because the wealthy Jewish elite struck a finacial deal with the british to get Israel back from the Palestinians there wouldn't have been all of that bloodshed? I mean it is the HOLY BIBLE that says Israel is the JEWS homeland and they can claim it whenever they want to. You don't think that is a motivation that has a grand negative outcome?

It all boils down to the arrogence of these religions thinking their way is the right way. The know the True god, all others are mistaken. Kinda sounds like some of the responses I get in this thread.
Everyone who thinks there is a god, thinks of this god differently......so how can you ever think what you believe to be god any more truthful then someone else's?
That is my point, my drive to destroy religion. It is simply mind control of the masses. No one knows what a god is, what a god does, what a god says, where a god comes from, what a god wants, what a god thinks and that is the biggest flaw of them all.

You don't know what a god is, so never claim to know. It is just a made up concept for the unknown. Why can you not grasp this concept?

 

[hexwind]

Muslims? Worship a big black rock.......seriously. The dome of the rock. Wtf is it from space or something?

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS ?!?!?!?
I thought I was discussing a subject with someone who KNOWS what they are saying and what they are talking about.
This only tells me that you only heard people talking about religion !! Hence your hatred towards it.

You seem confused and you think of yourself as superior and smarter than anybody else. At least, that's what I could see from your posts.
Why don't you do a fair research about religions in order to know what you are criticizing?

 

[hexwind]

A's way of life impedes B's way of life. that is why, that should be very apparent.
That leads me to the next point perfectly. Religious beliefs being forced onto non believers because of legislation or tyranny.

Is it still the same in where you live? Do you HAVE to pay taxes for religious groups?

Atheism would make the world better, not utopia. People are what people are and those things about them will not always change.

You say this because you are an atheist and you think that if your party controls the world everything will be in order. But what is good and what is bad? (that's another thread that we have here)

Theological beliefs are the cause of a sick mentality and intolerance.
Example A: Religious people vs Homosexuals
Example B: Religious wars, Religious Bombings, Massacre, ....and more!

Are you FOR homosexuality? You care more about humanity when it is affected by religion than when it comes to sexual diseases?
The latter example is based on SICK people who interpret their religious books in the wrong way.
If you can't distinguish between religions and their rules, then that's your problem. Not every religion is based on what you call sick mentality. You can find wisdom in religions.

So do you think that if the JEWS didn't claim Isreal back after WW2 because the wealthy Jewish elite struck a finacial deal with the british to get Israel back from the Palestinians there wouldn't have been all of that bloodshed? I mean it is the HOLY BIBLE that says Israel is the JEWS homeland and they can claim it whenever they want to. You don't think that is a motivation that has a grand negative outcome?

Did I say that the first testament is the word of God? Of course it was written to promote certain personal interests of the elites.

It all boils down to the arrogence of these religions thinking their way is the right way. The know the True god, all others are mistaken. Kinda sounds like some of the responses I get in this thread.
Everyone who thinks there is a god, thinks of this god differently......so how can you ever think what you believe to be god any more truthful then someone else's?

Again, give it a fair read and mellow conversation with someone who knows their religion well and listen to their arguments. Every religion has an argument. Just like atheists.

That is my point, my drive to destroy religion. It is simply mind control of the masses. No one knows what a god is, what a god does, what a god says, where a god comes from, what a god wants, what a god thinks and that is the biggest flaw of them all.

You ain't any better than a religious leader then. Religions have always been trying to cancel each other out. You look the same amigo

You don't know what a god is, so never claim to know. It is just a made up concept for the unknown. Why can you not grasp this concept?

Once again, you act like religious people. You are forcing your believes on others.

 

[Dak]

That is basically my point with Athiests which SI fails to understand. Active athiesm is no different than a religion. You find beliefs that are different than yours and then attack them while holding your idea of how to live as superior.

Congratulations on being that which you claim to hate most.

 

[razoredge]

^ exactly, Im atheist and for the most part keep my mouth shut other than stating some reasons, some aggravations or why Im atheist. Those that rant against religion are something much more than atheist, motivated by some purpose, no different or better than hardcore religious folk. Thus the topic title.

NOW, myself I like to focus on "the powers that be", regardless their spiritual beliefs... I want to chop all thier heads off.

Throughout history Religion/spirtual beliefs has been USED as a tool to justify conquest and dominance. Sadly this throWs those easily distracted by this tool and wish to blame all war and dominance on spirtual beliefs. Rather than realize its just the tool of a power hungry, control freak, master distractor wack job.

Thus why skull removal of all power tripping wack jobs would go ALONG LONG WAY. Eventually "Kings" would begin to think twice before they step up to the "Throne"

 

[Blowtus]

That is basically my point with Athiests which SI fails to understand. Active athiesm is no different than a religion. You find beliefs that are different than yours and then attack them while holding your idea of how to live as superior.

Well yeah, it's no different to religion in that sense, but you presuppose that all beliefs are equally worthwhile. It's different to religion in the lack of magical thinking, and pragmatic view of the world. I'd rather my fellow humanity use the best tools at their disposal for improving their own, and thus my, life. Praying to rain gods is less effective in the long run than developing irrigation

Agressive atheists do shit me, but only because it seems like picking on the special kid. Argue with someone your own size for fucks sake

 

[Dak]

I would like to point out that basically no modernization was conceived by an athiestic society, irrigation included. In fact, many great achievements were achieved by what we consider today people with very "backwards" religions (requiring animal/human sacrificing, "sex magic", etc.)

Athiests really have it easy for arguments. Most people don't know much about their religion (just like they don't know much about their country,world history, their government/representatives, basically anything important), so even trying to get them to carry on a discussion on their own terms is pretty fruitless (Religulous proved that).

But Athiests don't have anything to not know. It's a pretty fucking lazy cop out of a belief system. A "Religulous" type documentary with athiests would be pretty boring if you asked them about their beliefs, since they all just go "der, this is it mate, ain't nuthin else". On the flip side, if instead of asking them about their personal beliefs, you asked them to frame other's beliefs, there would be a never ending source of amusement from the steady stream of uneducated bullshit coming out of their mouths.

 

[Blowtus]

I would like to point out that basically no modernization was conceived by an athiestic society, irrigation included. In fact, many great achievements were achieved by what we consider today people with very "backwards" religions (requiring animal/human sacrificing, "sex magic", etc.)

Sure. Such developments always hinged on the recognition that there were observable and repeatable causes for phenomena, narrowing the fields in which magical, irrational thinking was applicable. Atheism is just the end expression of such. I don't think it's an unreasonable call to suggest that people and societies with a greater focus on rationality 'achieve' more. Whether such 'achievement' is to be valued is a personal judgment, but most in our modern societies seem to think its worthwhile.

But Athiests don't have anything to not know. It's a pretty fucking lazy cop out of a belief system. A "Religulous" type documentary with athiests would be pretty boring if you asked them about their beliefs, since they all just go "der, this is it mate, ain't nuthin else". On the flip side, if instead of asking them about their personal beliefs, you asked them to frame other's beliefs, there would be a never ending source of amusement from the steady stream of uneducated bullshit coming out of their mouths.

A 'lazy' belief system? I guess I agree, life would be much harder if I concocted worthless explanations for myriad phenomena. Assuming the non existence of things I have no reason to assume the existence of seems the only appropriate way to function. If I'm to start assuming things with no reason to do so, I've got no possible way of deciding what to assume, unless I revert to some external source such as culture or authority, but I can see no good reason to allow others to make up my mind for me either...

 

[Dak]

I find order spontaneously forming for no reason as about as likely as shaking a box of legos forming the model on the box picture. I have no reason to believe this is the case without some external source.

Of course I never pressure someone else to see things this way, but I got extremely irritated by "self righteous" athiests, as I would any particular self righteous/over zealous/militant religious pusher.

I have my beliefs and I share them with people who actually want to know. But guys like the pretentious fag in the OPs video are much worse of a "human type" than the little old lady who sits in church on sunday and "blindly believes in Jeebus", or "Bhudda", or "Allah", or whoever else.

 

[Blowtus]

I find order spontaneously forming for no reason as about as likely as shaking a box of legos forming the model on the box picture. I have no reason to believe this is the case without some external source.

So positing some unseen pre existing order that spontaneously formed for no reason, in order to give a reason for the order you see existing, seems more likely? Why?

 

[Dak]

I take what I can see on a daily basis (that chaos causes destruction, and intelligent design causes creation, whether it be in a lab, on a chalkboard, or at a construction sight), and then extrapolate it to explain what is not yet discovered.
Also, while it might seem a copout, I don't see it as a stretch that time as we understand it does not apply outside our dimensions. This would fall under the idea that a diety never became or formed, it just "Is".

That sounds much more plausible than the box of legos we call a universe poofing into existence for no reason, and then assembling itself into a highly technical functioning existence, also for no reason. This phenomena has never been observed by anyone, so if something could come from nothing I submit it would have to be outside not only our universe, but outside of whatever box our universe resides in.

 

[Silver Incubus]

I take what I can see on a daily basis (that chaos causes destruction, and intelligent design causes creation, whether it be in a lab, on a chalkboard, or at a construction sight), and then extrapolate it to explain what is not yet discovered.
Also, while it might seem a copout, I don't see it as a stretch that time as we understand it does not apply outside our dimensions. This would fall under the idea that a diety never became or formed, it just "Is".

That sounds much more plausible than the box of legos we call a universe poofing into existence for no reason, and then assembling itself into a highly technical functioning existence, also for no reason. This phenomena has never been observed by anyone, so if something could come from nothing I submit it would have to be outside not only our universe, but outside of whatever box our universe resides in.

I think it was quite a while back that we discovered that all matter is energy tightly packed up into particles. Being that Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it would mean that something never did come from nothing. That there was something, it changed into something else, some other form of energy .

Now if you are defining the Universe itself as God Then I may have to agree that that definiton is more then likely. And if that were to be the case then it would still only mean there is no communication with god.

 

[Silver Incubus]

That is basically my point with Athiests which SI fails to understand. Active athiesm is no different than a religion. You find beliefs that are different than yours and then attack them while holding your idea of how to live as superior.

Congratulations on being that which you claim to hate most.

I think it is a noble thing to get stupid people to think about their beliefs.

I don't care if people believe things...... I care when they say what they believe is TRUE and they cannot prove it.
Why not be ...like me... and many other atheists and have pragmatic beliefs based on what YOU YOURSELF have come to discover is a good way to live life and function with other people.

Freedom isn't something you own. It is a state of mind.

 

[Silver Incubus]

I would like to point out that basically no modernization was conceived by an athiestic society, irrigation included. In fact, many great achievements were achieved by what we consider today people with very "backwards" religions (requiring animal/human sacrificing, "sex magic", etc.)

Athiests really have it easy for arguments. Most people don't know much about their religion (just like they don't know much about their country,world history, their government/representatives, basically anything important), so even trying to get them to carry on a discussion on their own terms is pretty fruitless (Religulous proved that).

But Athiests don't have anything to not know. It's a pretty fucking lazy cop out of a belief system. A "Religulous" type documentary with athiests would be pretty boring if you asked them about their beliefs, since they all just go "der, this is it mate, ain't nuthin else". On the flip side, if instead of asking them about their personal beliefs, you asked them to frame other's beliefs, there would be a never ending source of amusement from the steady stream of uneducated bullshit coming out of their mouths.

It makes me happy knowing that most of the things you say in this thread are adorable attempts to sound big and tuff.
Man has everything to do with what man has done. God didn't win that race it was YOU. God didn't build that waterway, man did.

 

[Silver Incubus]

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS ?!?!?!?
I thought I was discussing a subject with someone who KNOWS what they are saying and what they are talking about.
This only tells me that you only heard people talking about religion !! Hence your hatred towards it.

You seem confused and you think of yourself as superior and smarter than anybody else. At least, that's what I could see from your posts.
Why don't you do a fair research about religions in order to know what you are criticizing?

Wow you actually read my posts???? COol yeah yeah yeah, I know more about the Muslim , with Mohammad the great prophet who apparently was better then the Jew champion Jesus. He has a winged horse he uses to fly to heaven right. And Allah is just another name for the God of the old testament right? Like Jehovah, and other pronunciations of it. The Koran.
The Koran is poetry right? I wonder if that is why it seems so easy to twist the meanings.
To be honest, I don't give two shits about the muslim religion to want to investigate it any further. It sounds as stupid as Christianity and Judaism which is all based on the same retarded stories about Abraham.

 

[Silver Incubus]

Is it still the same in where you live? Do you HAVE to pay taxes for religious groups?

You say this because you are an atheist and you think that if your party controls the world everything will be in order. But what is good and what is bad? (that's another thread that we have here)


Are you FOR homosexuality? You care more about humanity when it is affected by religion than when it comes to sexual diseases?
The latter example is based on SICK people who interpret their religious books in the wrong way.
If you can't distinguish between religions and their rules, then that's your problem. Not every religion is based on what you call sick mentality. You can find wisdom in religions.


Did I say that the first testament is the word of God? Of course it was written to promote certain personal interests of the elites.


Again, give it a fair read and mellow conversation with someone who knows their religion well and listen to their arguments. Every religion has an argument. Just like atheists.

You ain't any better than a religious leader then. Religions have always been trying to cancel each other out. You look the same amigo

Once again, you act like religious people. You are forcing your believes on others.

So you say "I don't believe in THAT GOD"
So what fucking kinda GOD do you believe in?
How would you know if it was a figment of your imagination compared to something you know is real and experience every day like a sunrise?`

Do you not get why saying "Their idea of god is wrong" is the best example of being an ATHEIST?

 

[Dak]

It makes me happy knowing that most of the things you say in this thread are adorable attempts to sound big and tuff.
Man has everything to do with what man has done. God didn't win that race it was YOU. God didn't build that waterway, man did.

I am curious as to what part of any of my statements were "internet tuff guy" material.

Could the Universe be an extension or inside of a godlike entity? Possibly. Does that rule out consciousness in the energy or communication with that consciousness. No. Science is always finding out how much it doesn't know yet, and who knows what is left to find out.

Also, comparing YHWH to allah just shows you don't know anything about two of the larger religions out there.

As I said and hexwind said, I see no difference between you and some "Bible Thumper" or Jihadist on a street corner.

 

[razoredge]

Excluding "Jihadists" I find myself more aggavated with loud "atheists" (anti-Christs) and science humpers than "Christians" that simply try to be good decent people.

 

[Silver Incubus]

I am curious as to what part of any of my statements were "internet tuff guy" material.

Could the Universe be an extension or inside of a godlike entity? Possibly. Does that rule out consciousness in the energy or communication with that consciousness. No. Science is always finding out how much it doesn't know yet, and who knows what is left to find out.

Also, comparing YHWH to allah just shows you don't know anything about two of the larger religions out there.

As I said and hexwind said, I see no difference between you and some "Bible Thumper" or Jihadist on a street corner.

Sorry bud, its you who doesn't know what he is talking about. I did a quick look up on wiki just to make sure I wasn't mistaken, And i wasn't.
That is why facts wins... because they describe reality.
Muslims consider all the prophets from the old testament and new testament and jesus as prophets of god or allah. Thereby the same GOD.
They consider Jews and Christians protected people because of that.

Yes the energy god. I know all too much about this one. Now in a useful pragmatic sense I do believe in the energy of Intention, but consciousness as self awareness or as life, it already has a definition that isn't god.

But going from evolution... all life is connected from the emergence of the first two different types of organisms....self replicating molecules. So in a primal kind of way, we share a connection with the living things like ourselves.

Thinking you could be communicated to by an "Energy" some abstract concept of a thing talking to you.....sounds like as plausible as Toasters randomly appearing on mars.

I think the real reason people feel the need to have Faith in a god is that they are scared. Scared to die. They don't want to leave their life behind. Their loved ones. So they cling to any idea of that....The recent emergence of the Psychics or mediums is proof of that. They want to think their ghost of relatives are watching over them...etc....
There is an afterlife of bliss, or reincarnation, or hellfire for the wicked, but how anyone knows about this, is the mystery. Is it knowledge??? not likely.
Sound like a myth story? Yeah, similar to many before it and many since.

Is it more useful to learn a martial art to defend yourself against an attacker or pray to god that they stop hurting you?

Can you understand my frustration with believers?

It's like they constantly say "Why have knowledge in practical things when I know there is a god? He/It/SHe will help me."

3+4=7 Correct!
3+4= god Wrong!