Amp information

Anonymous

Anonymous

L'Étranger
Nov 9, 2005
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New-Brunswick, Canada
I'm in the market for an amp, and by that I mean something I could gig with. Price is an option but not that important at this stage, I'm looking for quality shit. I was looking in my local buy/sell message board when I realized that I knew virtually nothing about amps and effects.

I currently own a 75 watt Line 6 Spider II amp and it's got the basics on there like distortion, delay, reverb, etc. Now, what I need to know is what should I look for in an amp. I've been considering a Mesa because I always hear good things about tube amps and well, Mesa is THE tube amp. What concerns me is the fact that I'm gonna have to go out and buy pedals and shit on the side and I know that's gonna cost another small fortune. So basically what I need is an amp head/4x12 cab combo that is loud, and will give me access to killer tones and effects without having to have a rack or pedal case full of stuff to tweak. And if pedals are obligatory then I'd also appreciate a few pedal recommendations as well.

I'd appreciate ANY info given here, as I don't want this to be a 'buy this' thread. I need to know why a certain amp is good or what to look for in amps. This is the type of situation I'd associate with the old saying 'Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for the rest of his life'. I just don't want to spend like 2 grand on something I know nothing about.
 
First off, don't fool yourself into thinking you NEED a head/4x12. I gig with a 1x12 Mesa F-30 and I've never run into problems with it not having enough power. Odds are if you ever play a gig that could require the volume of a half stack, they'll have a good PA system and your amp will be mic'd....so you really wouldn't need a half stack.

Second, you say Mesa is THE tube amp. I'm a mesa user and I'll be the first to tell you that that isn't necessarily true. In the end it comes down to your ears. Just because Mesa is THE amp for someone, doesn't mean it's THE amp for you. The most obvious thing to take into consideration is what sound you are going for. Don't buy a fender twin if you are joining a cannibal corpse cover band (for example). Narrow down some of your favorite tones from players you like and find out what they are using. It wont always get you where you want, but it's a great place to start.

A big thing you will run into is tube vs solid state. While many (myself included) usually prefer tube amps, there are some that feel pretty strongly otherwise (gambale for example). Also, keep in mind that tube amps are a little higher maintainence than solid state. So while tone is an important factor, so is reliability and consistency in performance (which is important if you gig a lot). Again, the type of grounds you are trying to cover tonally will factor in on this. On jazz gigs, there's nothing I'd rather have than a nice clean solid state (roland jc ftw), but for anything else I'd definitely want to go tube. As far as tube amps go....familarize yourself with the differences in sound between types of tubes (i.e. EL34's vs. 6L6's), cabinet designs (open back, closed back, 3/4 back, etc.). Decide what you need as far as channels, flexibility, switchibility, etc. If you use different EQ settings for rhythm, clean, and lead then you probably wont want something with one master set of EQ controls.

Size is an issue too. If going to a gig means piling everything in your drummers volvo, and driving a few hours to the venue, then you probably don't want any kind of stack. Trust me, it's SO much more convenient to show up with as little gear as possible. It's easier for you, the other bands, the rest of your band, the venue, etc. Same goes for any pedalboard or rack setup you might use.

A far as effects go, the most important thing to remember is to not waste money/space or force yourself to carry around anything you don't really need. If you only use a flanger one cover song that you play in your bedroom from time to time....don't wast 80 bucks to buy a flange pedal, or at least don't bother bringing it to a gig. Cut costs where possible and (just like with amps) don't purchase based on brand name. Case and point: Ibanez Tubescreamers. You can get a digitech version that works the same, if not better, for 1/3 of the price. Also...don't be the guy who spends 30 minutes setting up your rig for some low-key local venue. Nobody likes that guy. Either strip your rig down, or organize things in a manner that you can set up and tear down quickly and easily.

The most important thing, above ALL else. Is TRY BEFORE YOU BUY. Especially with amps...stomp boxes can be exceptions to that rule. Don't blow 1500 bucks getting a Mesa off of Ebay unless you know how that particular amp sounds. Also, a lot of people overlook this, but when you try out amps, do so with your guitar if possible.

I know a lot of that is just general ideas as opposed to really specific things to look for, but I didn't want to do the "buy this amp" post. So for now, I'd say take a piece of paper, and write out what you NEED...then maybe even draw a rough diagram of the rig you are looking for and THEN start looking for the actual gear you want.
 
Just try as many as u can. In the end it doesnt matter what's inside as long as u like what u hear. Sometimes cheaper ones will still pwn the expensive ones. I know some ppl who use laney and that seems to be pretty good value.... but I've never really bothered trying anything out cos i'm more into keys these days.
 
All I can say is to go to your music store(s) and try out your amps, dry without effects, and see if the gain meets happily with your ear (echo Meedley's comment). I can't say I would recommend buying a particular amp off the internet because Favorite Guitarist X uses it. If you like Favorite Guitarist X's sound, you would also be in for the (potentially) large number of effects units as well. You may be surprised by some amps that you hear though - some may require no external effects other than a simple delay pedal.

Then I would recommend a multi-fx rack unit. I have a TC Electronics G Major that was less than $500 and it has absolutely killer effects (as per all TCE equipment), but is a wee limited by teh ordering of effects (but that's why it's under $500).

If you go Mesa, I don't think you're going to have a problem with the gain levels. All you would need is your basic effects - delay, chorus, maybe some compression if you feel the need, etc. I would recommend a Road King, but they're huge dollars (four amps in one).

Randall makes some pretty good amps using solid state devices.

When you have your amp and you get it home and have played with it a couple weeks and you still think your leads need more gain, check out eBay and buy a Chandler Tube Driver. They're out of production, but you cannot find a better tube distortion. Just make sure it's a Chandler and not a Tube Works (who later bought Chandler). I prefer the rack mount myself.
 
My overall recommendation remains the same as every other thread that has come up though. But, I'm an '80's guy...

ADA MP-1 Preamp
Chandler Tube Driver
TC Electronic GMajor
ADA Microtube 100/200
Any 2x12 or 4x12 cabinet (two of either for a stereo set-up) with quality speakers

I lack the Microtube from above, but currently run the GMajor into a Crate G212's power amp, bypassing the preamp stage. I have enough juice here to exclude the Tube Driver, but some people may require more gain than me. If you have the dough, I'd sub a TCE GForce for the GMajor.

All equipment is available through eBay or at used music shops.

But, if I had the money today (money that didn't go toward family debt and keeping my kids fed and in a good school), I'd buy a Mesa Road King.
 
Honestly, I think Mesas are overrated. While they sound nasty and amazing, they lack good clean tone, and you really can't get good harmonics on them.
 
Ptah Khnemu said:
Honestly, I think Mesas are overrated. While they sound nasty and amazing, they lack good clean tone, and you really can't get good harmonics on them.
Click to expand...


I ran NO effects staright into a MK IV. For distortion, it sounded like a souped up Marshall, for cleans, it was nearly Fender-like. I didn't have a lot of use for the mid channel.
Were you test driving Recto's, Ptah? They are somewhat known for NOT having great clean tones.....

The Boogie MK IV is probably one of the most versatile amps I've ever owned, and was hands down THE best tube amp I've ever plugged into. You will have to fiddle with it a lot, but once you get to understanding what knob turning affects what, you'll be in a giant wading pool full of tone. Size wise, the short MB MKIV head & cabinet will fit into any small car. If you need effects, the TC stuff has been touted as one of the best out there.

Now, for being practical, I can't say enough about Line6. True, I miss my tubes, and my Flextone II isn't a tube amp, but you can derive almost any sound from it, and everything is on-board the amp. All you would need is a midi controller. (ie a Line 6 Floorboard)

Ultimately, you will have to do what so many others have already said, and that's to let your own ears decide.....
 
Ptah Khnemu said:
Honestly, I think Mesas are overrated. While they sound nasty and amazing, they lack good clean tone, and you really can't get good harmonics on them.
Click to expand...


wrong and wrong (about bad clean tones and not being able to get good harmonics)

In reference to J-Dubya's comment on the Mk IV....it's one of my favorite amps too. The thing with the Mk IV (in my experience) is that it is anything but a plug and play amp. Like most tube amps, it will react very differently at different volumes. You might get a pretty good sound in a rehearsal, then go to a gig that night, take the volume up louder and haveto COMPLETELY reconfigure your settings. That's part of the reason I like the simplicity of something like my F-30 (though I'd still take MK IV over it for tone...atleast for dist. sounds). I've never spent more than 5 minutes setting up my gear and dialing my sound in for a gig. That's where knowing your gear really comes into play. Don't make the mistake I did and play a gig the same day you get a new amp. You really should know your gear well enough to need only a few notes to know exactly what (if anything) you need to adjust and how much you need to adjust it. As I'm sure you're starting to realize.....there's a lot of consideration that should go in to building/purchasing your rig. Unless of course you are loaded....then you can buy all the gear and give me what you don't want.
 
Does anybody know anything about the Line 6 HD147 head? It's probably my best bet as far as bang for buck goes. I'm actually quite loyal to the simplicity and practicality of Line 6 since all this talk about other amps seems so complicated. Anyways, the HD147 is basically an in-between from Spider and Vetta and it's fucking 300 watts. Cheap too, compared to Mesa or Vettas. Also, if you don't mind I'd like to hear more about your Flextone J-Dub.
 
I have an old (about 15 years, thats old for me) Peavey Supreme 160. It took me a while before I got used to messing around with it, but now I like it a lot. Its cheap (got the whole half-stack used for under $500), solid state and ugly, but it works and sounds brutal. All I use is a boss eq pedal to clean it up a bit.
 
MrFast said:
Also, if you don't mind I'd like to hear more about your Flextone J-Dub.
Click to expand...

It's a Flextone II Plus XL. I paid $215 for it + shipping. The floorboard cost me $90, both on E-bay. I have never gigged with it, so I don't know how it sounds going direct into a PA, but for the little jam sessions in my basement, it's been nicely adequate. It is a 1x12, and not anywhere near the power of my old Marshall, or the MK IV. The biggest negative is it's not tubes. I've ALWAYS been a tube guy since I started playing. When I came out of financial ruin a couple years ago, the price vs. what it can do was the selling point. I don't have $1200 (used)to replace the Boogie, nor can I come near affording the $2600 (used) for a Road King (My dream amp), and this amp is nowhere near any of them in power. There's just something about tube driven distortion vs transistors. What it can do, is be used for ANY style of music. You can infinitely tweak via conrol panel (PITA!)or via an editor. You'll need a MIDI to USB converter (about $25) but the Line6 interface for your PC is pretty awesome, and easy to use. You will also need this to program your own patches for the amp. You get 9 banks of 4 sounds each for a total of 36 different patches. The floorboard is essential for these kinds of modeling amps. I call it a "rack in the box".

There is also an online tone library with a gazillion of user uploaded patches. Like that Petrucci lead tone, but think it has too much delay? download the patch, bring it up in the editor, and roll off as much of the delay as you see fit.

People have said the Flextone III's don't sound as good as the II's. I haven't played through a III, so I have no experience with them, and can't confirm or deny that. If I had to do it all over again, I think I would have gone for the 2x12, but after selling everything, and being without a guitar in the house for over a year, I was quite happy with what I got.
I threw the manual for my amp up on my webspace, it's a pdf file
that covers EVERYTHING about the amp.

http://webpages.charter.net/jwstuff/FlextoneII.pdf

Lemme know when you grab it.
How's this for starters? :)
 
Eternal Dragon said:
I've heard good things about the peavey JSX.... or was that JSR?? I cant remember, lol. Apparently is got a really crystal clean clean channel.
Click to expand...

that thing is godly. I'm a fan of the head+cab deal, and especially that warm Marshall tone. Obviously if you're on a budget, this won't be doable. Neither would the JS, or Engl, or H&K. :lol:

Honestly I don't see the backup for the hype on stuff like Triple Recs. Great distortion. Clean? Meh. Same with Soldano, Diezel, and those crazy 'nu metal' amps like the Mode4. Honestly, nobody needs 400 watts in a guitar head. Bass head yes. It's simply a waste of power. So here goes my rant... :Spin: the human ear isn't linear. Most musicians know this- 20watts does not sound twice as loud as 10watts - 100watts does. Why is 10 times the wattage twice the 'loudness?' Our hearing is more or less exponential (or logarithmic depending on how you interpret it) so to get something twice as loud as your typical 100watt head, you'd need 1000 watts. And even then, you'd just be making yourself deaf. The only reason junk like Mode4 sells is because kiddies see a massive number of watts and think that means it's automatically a huge sounding amp. Sure it's a bit (yes, barely perceivable if at all) louder than a 150 watt head. But do you really want a loud shitty sound? I'd prefer a killer sound any day...

As for Line6... Not really a fan. They do a good job and are great for black metal, death metal, modern stuff- if you want that 'digital', dry, tech metal kind of sound. Not so great at sounding like a tube circuit. No modeling amp or solid state really can compare, so you basically pick your preference (mine should be clear ;) )

Effects- I've got a Boss GT-6. I don't use it much. Only use it for novel stuff like the string emulator. When I play live, I run it as a bypass/tuner to two amps, and out of one amp I run a Morley Bad Horsie 2 Wah. That's about it. My Marshall's got verb, delay, and EQ on it, and that's all I really want. That and 4 channels which I've roughly set up for "acoustic-ish clean", "jazz/blues clean", "classic rock", "fuckin metal".

/rant
 
I don't see that as much of a rant, really. Mostly truth.

But, it all comes back to personal preference and why you MUST hear an amp for yourself. Our words on this forum tell you nothing more than what works for us. Take your favorite guitar to a local shop and plug in. Buy what sounds the best to you.

You'll probably walk out with a used ADA MP-1 though. :lol:
 
MrFast said:
I might just get this instead, seems like a good deal.

http://media.locals.ca/localsconf/viewtopic.php?t=89211&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Click to expand...

I didn't read anything about the amp, but rather I was facinated by a naked centaur woman avatar.

dreamgirl.jpg


zomgggggg
 
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