An interesting take on religious thought - written by me.

[Damian B]

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/dy173/an_examination_of_the_militant_atheism_view_from/

I just wrote this. Some of you may find it interesting.

 

[Rhys Llewellyn]

Wow man. A very well written piece

Your academia on this subject shits all over mine, a little bit of it went over my head with various quotes and names.

I am, I guess one of those "militant atheists". I am a huge fan of Dawkins and Hitchens. They make 100% sense to me.

I just still don't get it though... One of your points being "The factual validity of Jesus, the Bible, etc, doesn't matter."

As you've said yourself you used to believe this. Why would you change your mind?

I don't agree with blasting atheism down people's throats, luckily, in the UK it is way more acceptable to be atheist and I cannot name bar maybe 3 people I know that goes to church, other than for weddings, christenings (ironically). So I guess I don't really have much to complain about, but it does get me angry when they decide to shit in the face of science.

It's the whole hypocrisy of it all...

One Christian may believe in equal rights for women and gay people.

The next may be "truer to his God" and take the Bible literally and want all gay people dead and believe the World is only a few thousand years old and we came from Adam's rib or whatever. Sorry, but if you believe that, then you are an idiot as far as I'm concerned. (Not you, of course, I mean in general )

If you can pick and choose which parts you like and which parts you don't like, then you're not being true to your God in the first place. You either obey it all, or you don't.

Hence, it is all ridiculous to me.

This, of course, all based upon absolutely NO evidence. Maybe I'm brainwashed by Dawkins, he is a personal hero of mine, but I come from a non-religious family, not "militant atheists", God has just never come up. I wasn't abused and told I'd go to Hell if I did bad things. I was left to make my own mind up, and even at a young age, it seemed ridiculous to me. Actually, it was when I found out Santa wasn't real! That was the only magic I truly believed in and my dreams were crushed! lol

 

[Damian B]

To clarify, I'm still an atheist haha. I don't believe in god, and don't see or feel and evidence for him/her/it in my life. I have come to a greater understanding of the religious perspective though, which is what the article was detailing. And in writing the article I was trying to get the point across that we (meaning atheists) must be able to understand the religious perspective to make any progress with religious people. Otherwise it's just one extremist side yelling at the other.

I think it's the job of good theology to determine what is good or bad, relevant of not, etc in the bible. For example, to understand many of the biblical stories, such as Adam and Eve or Abraham taking his son to go kill him, literally is to miss the point entirely. Theological scholars (most of them, the good ones at least haha) will readily admit that these stories are parables, which are stories about us. The story of Adam and Eve is about man's inherent nature of sin, not about some woman eating an apple in god's garden! A lot of ignorant religious people don't realize this, and this is dangerous. I'm not letting religion off easily.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Interesting article. Thanks for sharing.


As to your prof's question: "You don't have faith, how could you ever expect to see God?"

My answer would be: "When amputees start regrowing limbs due to the power of prayer."

 

[AudioPhile777]

Great article!

I agree with your point of view.

Also, I've been a fan of this for a while, though I don't consider myself an atheist...

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours" -Richard Dawkins.

Then there is also one of my heroes,

"Religion has actually convinced people that there`s an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do..And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever `til the end of time! ...But He loves you." - George Carlin

 

[Rhys Llewellyn]

To clarify, I'm still an atheist haha. I don't believe in god, and don't see or feel and evidence for him/her/it in my life. I have come to a greater understanding of the religious perspective though, which is what the article was detailing. And in writing the article I was trying to get the point across that we (meaning atheists) must be able to understand the religious perspective to make any progress with religious people. Otherwise it's just one extremist side yelling at the other.

I think it's the job of good theology to determine what is good or bad, relevant of not, etc in the bible. For example, to understand many of the biblical stories, such as Adam and Eve or Abraham taking his son to go kill him, literally is to miss the point entirely. Theological scholars (most of them, the good ones at least haha) will readily admit that these stories are parables, which are stories about us. The story of Adam and Eve is about man's inherent nature of sin, not about some woman eating an apple in god's garden! A lot of ignorant religious people don't realize this, and this is dangerous. I'm not letting religion off easily.

But why feel the need to even embrace it? Also, who's to say if they are indeed parables or "gospel", by the very definition which I think it may even come from means "the given truth", or something to that effect.

So already there are two accounts of an already highly flawed story. It is very widely accepted Jesus was not born in a manger and that he was born in the Summer (a baby called Jesus anyway), and the Christmas holiday has been totally usurped from some ancient druid festival. Yet.... It's just an inconvenient truth to them.

I understand you're playing "Devil's Advocate" in a way (every pun intended there), but they're not gonna sit down and listen to you, so why should you do the same to them?

I'm not saying it's all out war, far from it. As I said, in my world anyway, religion has absolutely no impact on my way of life.

From what you say though... To see it from their perspective... I simply CAN'T. I'm not agnostic, I'm firmly atheist, so to me, to try and see their perspective contradicts my beliefs.

You say they're perhaps parables. But the Bible says you are born with sin 18 years before you get the chance to get a credit card and snort cocaine off a hooker's ass. Anyone who would suggest a new born baby is a sinner, I'm sure you'll agree is fucked up. And to be fair, although I've never had such the pleasure of doing such an act, I fail to see why that is such a bad thing anyway.

 

[Rhys Llewellyn]

Great article!

I agree with your point of view.

Also, I've been a fan of this for a while, though I don't consider myself an atheist...

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours" -Richard Dawkins.

Then there is also one of my heroes,

"Religion has actually convinced people that there`s an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do..And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever `til the end of time! ...But He loves you." - George Carlin

The Dawkins' quote is possibly one of the simplest, shortest, most convincing arguments. Pure genius.

Yet you don't consider yourself atheist... I can't really see how that works. You clearly think it's a great quote too, yet, aren't convinced by it's logic.

 

[GarethSE]

I used to consider myself Atheist but I refuse to use the term on myself lately for two (main) reasons.
A) It doesn't really sum up my spiritual beliefs as of late, which is probably more akin to a humanist point of view
B) Atheists seem to have a tendency to be just as militant as the theistic. Sure, probably more of a minority than a majority, I know many, many atheists that are content to just shut the fuck up and get on with it, and many (but less so) that are content to not just live and let live. I just don't want to be attached to that any more.

It's like these Lady Gaga and music discussions that happen on this forum where it's just two opposing forces bashing each other's heads with opinions which I have myself been one of the main proprietors of. I'm lately realising what a pointless endeavour this shit is, neither party is going to give in, people are too damn stubborn, myself included, so you just gotta accept that people view the world differently.
One of the later trains of thought has been about perception, and how there is no "true" perception, seeing as we all view the world through different eyes. A lot of things that I believe in (a "soul" of some sort, energies that transfer between all beings, organic, inanimate, anything in between,) may not even exist to someone else, but like Damian's article says, are very much real to the person in question. A lot of the things I do not believe in may be very real for someone else. My perception isn't the "true perception," nor is the other person's. The only true perception, if there is such a thing, are a few laws and morals that the majority agree to, but even then, morality and law really aren't universally agreed on.

Excellent read though Damien. Cheers for that.

Yet you don't consider yourself atheist... I can't really see how that works. You clearly think it's a great quote too, yet, aren't convinced by it's logic.

I don't eat meat, yet I don't consider myself a vegetarian. Ponder on that one.

 

[ShreddyM]

Wow, I didn't know this was done by you. Posted this on my Facebook before I knew. Good job, bro.

 

[AudioPhile777]

The Dawkins' quote is possibly one of the simplest, shortest, most convincing arguments. Pure genius.

Yet you don't consider yourself atheist... I can't really see how that works. You clearly think it's a great quote too, yet, aren't convinced by it's logic.

I do not believe in any single deity... but I have an idea of what god should be.

Am I religious? Do I worship something I cannot see? Do I believe in god? No.

Do I believe that there is for a fact no force or "higher power" out there. I'm unsure of that.

There are very few things I actually believe in because I tend to have ideas more so than beliefs.

I believe in myself and the feelings I have, the things I say, the way I live my life and in the things I do. I simply believe in possibilities.

Bottom line, I am constantly changing what I believe in and what my ideas are and the basis for them...

 

[Rhys Llewellyn]

I do not believe in any single deity... but I have an idea of what god should be.

Am I religious? Do I worship something I cannot see? Do I believe in god? No.

Do I believe that there is for a fact no force or "higher power" out there. I'm unsure of that.

There are very few things I actually believe in because I tend to have ideas more so than beliefs.

I believe in myself and the feelings I have, the things I say, the way I live my life and in the things I do. I simply believe in possibilities.

Bottom line, I am constantly changing what I believe in and what my ideas are and the basis for them...

But aren't some things just constants...

You trust in gravity, you drink because you're thirsty and whatever...

These things never change.

The world around you isn't changing. Perhaps what's in your head, but that's not altering reality to the forces of the universe.

What could change to suddenly make you think anything significant about there being a higher being?

 

[Morgan C]

As I said, in my world anyway, religion has absolutely no impact on my way of life.

This.

I don't eat meat, yet I don't consider myself a vegetarian. Ponder on that one.

I'm an atheist in the way you're a vegetarian. I don't go out of my way to not believe in God, or to antagonise others, but it simply has no relevance in my life. For quite a while I didn't label myself as an atheist because it usually has the connotation of being an active disbelief, whereas in my case and I think in most cases, it's just.. no-one goes to Church anyway, most Christians interpret the Bible in their own way, I'm just going one step further in not giving a fuck about something that has zero effect on my life.

 

[GarethSE]

The world around you isn't changing. Perhaps what's in your head, but that's not altering reality to the forces of the universe.

My world is CONSTANTLY changing. I percieve it to be, and thus it is. You percieve it not to be, and thus it isn't.

 

[amarshism]

Here's my basic logic argument from a previous post.

God is dead. All hail god.



I hope the bible was written by a bunch of muso junkies to fuck with humanity. If you choose to accept your chosen religion and have faith in it because of 'Biblical evidence', than surely you must also accept all other such thoroughly documented religions as fact. Who are you to choose which are right and wrong, because if one is to exist, then based on the documentation, artifacts and institutions, then all should exist. If you think one doesn't, then all mustn't. You don't get to choose when all evidence points to many gods. Therefore if you accept that there is a god, then you must also accept that there are many gods, all responsible for creating earth, and the heavens and hell, which contradicts the inherent exclusivity prevalent throughout monotheism.

How many Christian people posting in here deny evolution? How many think dinosaurs didn't exist. How many think the earth is only a few thousand years old? If you answered yes to any of these questions then you must realise your religion is flawed and your faith misdirected. Empirical data has proven these things in totally unrelated repeatable cases. You can't argue intelligently for religion. It just isn't possible.

As unethical as it is, we need a lord of the flies experiment carried out.

 

[vikk]

if there is one thing that pisses me off more than a religious fanatic, are atheist. newsflash! you're fucking annoying! grow up and start worrying about about real things in life.

 

[GarethSE]

I realised recently that the whole thing comes down to an argument over whether there's a guy in the sky with a bigass beard or not when really both parties are fundamentally all about loving thy neighbour.
Atheists believe without God, that is easier, and it may well be, but the BASIC intention of Christianity is also just that, love thy neighbour, treat others as you'd like to be treated, and all I see from either party is a whole lot o' shit slingin'.
So personally, I am no longer identifying with either side and just trying to treat people nicer than I have done in the past because Christian, Atheist or otherwise, this arguing is a waste of fucking time and detracting from the real point and what we all want: to just get along. That's my 2 cents, over and out

 

[SocialNumb]

You guys are lucky that religion has no impact in your life. Must be where you live or something. Where I live, they make the rules, therefor I have to worry about it.

 

[Leavit]

Thanks for sharing!

I dont mind belifes. There is a war between christians and Atheist's on youtube and all over the net. I personally think the atheist fail on this point. Because conflict is really the problem to begin with. Religion seperates ppl. To constantly shove science in christians faces isnt very enlightning for a closed minded christian.

 

[SocialNumb]

 

[GarethSE]

Eh, as far as the "wrong" people being in control, yeah, it's getting worse, and it will continue to do so and there is nothing your average joe can do about it except sit back and watch the fireworks.
Karma will have its way and things will come full circle. \o/