An old and very interesting post from D Mullholland- Functional Music

[Shell Shock]

Shell shock you make many good points- yet, has there ever been a piece of music that moved you- that you understood- but your friends would never understand? And, you make a good point that music sometimes doesnt force one to think at all- but to be part of the music.

That piece of music is called metal. Most of my friends do not listen to it - most of my friends do not take music THAT seriously to have well-thought out principles. And I don't consider myself very "advanced" music-wise, either. I think that all music genres have a right to exist - only that within these genres there are artists with no talent or artists who don't showcase any talent, but are loved by the masses.

You tell a guy who's been studying music forever (a few of my friends and close relatives have), gone to a conservatory, etc. - lived and breathed music for a very long time, from their early age - to compare, say, Slayer with Britney Spears. Most of the time he will find no difference. I know what you'll say - this is all a pretentious elitism, blah-blah - and yet think of elitism that is not pretentious. Think of musicians who are hard-working and talented and very educated (the first two are abundant in the metal scene - the latter one isn't) - and why would his opinion be less significant than yours? It wouldn't... To him, I'm what all those Britney Spears fans are to me.. Like there's no difference between a second and a lifetime when compared to eternity - there's no difference between Britney Spears and metal to those educated music nerds. Therefore I've got no argument, none at all (since I like bands like Slayer) when I'm bashing a hip-hop or pop fan.. I mean, with the exception of some GLARING talentless boneheads - the notes always stay the same, whatever style it is.. Music is not objective, it's subjective, and I say we should just listen to what we like without any feelings of "musical supremacy...."

 

[AjDeath]

"Oh, and to me, music is very functional, it keeps me sane." A very telling quote, I am a bit jealous, as music is much more important to you than it is to me.

As for your comment on the testament board, I very much understand you. I think we are coming from the same thought; that life is wonderful, but horribly absurd and fucked up. That there is no god, nor a ubermensch, nor a perfect government; just people, fucking up, and being happy at the same time.

Up in Maine, you must be pretty isolated, what do you guys do for entertainment? Do you have a decent public library- or any decent stores without having to drive for an hour? I suppose the seafood is quite good though, fresh fish and lobster. Where do you meet women in Maine- besides your place of work and school- do most of them leave? Sorry for the questions- but I find Maine to be interesting.

I'd like to see more posts on different non metal subjects, but so few people care on a metal board.

Actually southern Maine is not the great wilderness you are thinking about, allright, there are a lot of woods and shit and you can white water raft and camp and hike till your heart busts, but there are some fairly large towns, and in those towns we have the typical American malls with Gap and other lesser known trend stores, and there are clubs where people go to hang out. Also the towns I live in, Lewiston/Auburn(basically, same town on opposite sides of a river) there is one of the most expensive colleges in the country-Bates College, oh the hippies, and hot women. There are a lot of trend whores in Maine too, wiggers, ass hugging jeans and a lot of "I am hip hop" bullshit, by the time I was thirteen, I realized that all these people were doing was watching MTV and doing what they saw on there, I didn't, I have always been against the grain, and to me actual thought is a trait to be treasured in a human, because I see so little of it. I have always read and I always buy my books if I can find them, and our libraries aren't that bad, I just don't want to bother with a friggin card, I love to read, it is another thing that keeps me sane.

But what do I do for fun? I play in a metal band called Ripfence, stupid name, heavy music, that is what I do, I live to play live and pretty soon we will be playing shows out of state throughout New England, guitar is one thing that I can always count on, it calms me down, it really does keep me sane.

Oh and about the women, most of them do not leave, but most of them aren't that good looking either.

 

[speed]

Maine doesnt sound that bad at all then- sort of an outdoor AMericana thing they got going there. Trend whores, I like that- Ill have to borrow it.

 

[SADUDE]

I have been away for awhile so i just saw this thread.

AJ:

You have mentioned staying sane twice in this thread. Why stay sane? Why try to be, just be. Let life take you where it does without the worry of a certain label. Im sure you agree with this. I just don't understand the implied(?) disapproval of insanity. Im not too sure what sanity is any way.


You also say that humanity hasn't reached nor is trying to reach it's potential. What makes you assume that we are capable of more than what appears? What makes us different from the gleeful lizard basking in the sun on a rock all day. I envy that lizard. I don't see a real social evolution to our species. Sure we have subtly adapted to survive. What has changed over the past 5 thousand years of our species? Religion, government, oppression, hatred is still here as it was then. So what if it has changed, or at least appeared to by slight superficial alteration. What makes life all that much different than it was then? Technology? If technology is the answer then I want out now. I can not accept that. Sure medical advance is one advantage and inarguably useful and wonderful thing. We can't expect to constantly increase our life expectancy like we have been doing. Maybe we have bumped up the life expectancy from like 50-75 in 50 years. That is an accomplishment. I see this kind of progress continuing for awhile. Eventually it will plateau. I can't see any human ever hitting say 250. Sure this is a remarkable change we have made.
The Greek philosophers asked the same questions then that we still do today. Assuming a potential is also assuming a purpose to existance. What is this goal that we should all be working for? If we had a purpose we would have realized it by now, and maybe made a great deal of progress. If we haven't advantanced by now then I say the species never will, and inevitably become extinct.
The lizard has the advantage however. It may not be able to perceive its own existance, but it does not have greed, jealousy, hatred, etc. Our gift that has elevated us over animals has done us more harm. Animals don't kill each other out of greed. They do out of necessity, to survive and eat. If i could be ignorant I would. I would love to sit on a hot rock all day without my manic mood swings and depression. I would be content. Something may eat me at any moment. It wouldn't matter.

 

[SADUDE]

D Mull's post was incredible. I need to really think about this before responding.

 

[AjDeath]

I have been away for awhile so i just saw this thread.

AJ:

You have mentioned staying sane twice in this thread. Why stay sane? Why try to be, just be. Let life take you where it does without the worry of a certain label. Im sure you agree with this. I just don't understand the implied(?) disapproval of insanity. Im not too sure what sanity is any way.


You also say that humanity hasn't reached nor is trying to reach it's potential. What makes you assume that we are capable of more than what appears? What makes us different from the gleeful lizard basking in the sun on a rock all day. I envy that lizard. I don't see a real social evolution to our species. Sure we have subtly adapted to survive. What has changed over the past 5 thousand years of our species? Religion, government, oppression, hatred is still here as it was then. So what if it has changed, or at least appeared to by slight superficial alteration. What makes life all that much different than it was then? Technology? If technology is the answer then I want out now. I can not accept that. Sure medical advance is one advantage and inarguably useful and wonderful thing. We can't expect to constantly increase our life expectancy like we have been doing. Maybe we have bumped up the life expectancy from like 50-75 in 50 years. That is an accomplishment. I see this kind of progress continuing for awhile. Eventually it will plateau. I can't see any human ever hitting say 250. Sure this is a remarkable change we have made.
The Greek philosophers asked the same questions then that we still do today. Assuming a potential is also assuming a purpose to existance. What is this goal that we should all be working for? If we had a purpose we would have realized it by now, and maybe made a great deal of progress. If we haven't advantanced by now then I say the species never will, and inevitably become extinct.
The lizard has the advantage however. It may not be able to perceive its own existance, but it does not have greed, jealousy, hatred, etc. Our gift that has elevated us over animals has done us more harm. Animals don't kill each other out of greed. They do out of necessity, to survive and eat. If i could be ignorant I would. I would love to sit on a hot rock all day without my manic mood swings and depression. I would be content. Something may eat me at any moment. It wouldn't matter.

My main reason for wanting to stay, as humans put it, sane? Well, I like discussion and I need an organized healthy mind to be even remotely intelligent about it. To me their is nothing more important than rational, intelligent thought in humanity, this process is an alternative to violence and blind hatred, this is the potential for humanity that I see. I guess that I am a throw back to the enlightenment movement, where reason and thought was based around all you could possibly know instead of ignorance, that is not to say that some decisions are spur of the moment for no reason, sometimes it has to be that way, what I am saying is this, decisions and opinions based in blind love, or blind hate is ignorance, and it is what human thought has been based on since time out of mind. Not thought based in what you percieve is right, but what you WANT to be right. It is total and utter ignorance, the pinnacle of thoughtless humanity, and it rules us. I try to stay away from making a decision just because it is comfortable, I try to do what is in my life-right.

Right now I have to get a few things off my chest, sorry in advance.

I have been called immature and "idiotic" in these boards by a lot of people, most of the time because I point out something about human nature that someone doesn't want to admit. I see people not willing to challenge themselves, I see people giving up on living their own life, they call me negative and say things to me based in hatred, I am not negative, I do not have room in my life for other peoples hate, I try not to hate, very hard. I can honestly say that i respect and listen to other opinions, but at the end of the day I think for myself, how they see this as immaturity and idiocy I will never know.

 

[speed]

Sadude- brilliant post. Ajdeath- dont go on the defensive man- no on is questioning you.

Sadude, I have always thought the main problem with our present judeo-christian society- is the belief that one day there will be a better man- or better gov- the everything for the future ideal; this messianism we seem to hold so dear is the very thing that to me, embodies all the world's problems. Instead of creating for a future that is uncertain, why not make the most of the present, as human kind as you have stated, will always be bereft with imperfection, be it greed, or murder, etc. I suppose I am invoking Epicurus, and Lucretius- the two most maligned and misunderstood philosophers because of the early christian church. Since, we know there is no god, there is no justice, there is no perfect or just state- why not live for the moment- in moderation of course?

 

[AjDeath]

Ooh, I think you and I finally disagreed with each other Speed. I agree with what you say, but not in the ideal that humanity will always be bereft of elightenment. One person at a time, one day at a time, one life at a time. I don't try to argue that I am always right, just for a different PoVs. I have been there and done that, I have been a total Satanist, I have been the model Born Again Christian, I have been the poster boy for Anarchy, I have been a conservative Republican hardliner, I am now considered by many as the typical leftist Liberal. I am none of these, I am me, a person driven by reason and logic not the chains of public perception and trends, but I can't change the reality that most of the people play the game without realizing that they are part of it.

I know that is not what you are saying, but I believe that life is not and should not be all in the now, what kind of humans would we be if we did not try to at least lay some of the ground work for a better society? Selfish? Ignorant. The world can only change if anough people care enough, and in my mind that isn't going to happen soon, but It will change, and maybe not for the better, but it depends on what we do now in preperation for anything that might not even happen in our lifetime or our childrens. I for one do not want to press my children into the current state of debt slavery that our gov't has forced onto us, they will inherit your debt, a more involved form of slavery-debt- actually does occur here in the States, read the latest issue of National Geographic, it has a killer article about slavery and it's very real existence in our world, every country in the world SOLD at least 100 people last year, SOLD. You tell those people to live for today when today is forced prostitution and daily beatings after being forced to fuck evryone who wants to. You tell the illegal worker from Mexico why he has to pick oranges in Florida for no money to pay off the "debt" he incurred while being trasported to the STates. This falls into you view of living now, I know, but why/ Why in the world should this be allowed to go on, in a world where man's "ideals" are so "advanced", we are just as barbaric and selfish as humans allways were, we just think we are civilized. Ask the untouchables of the Hindu religion how civilized humanity is, when one of them gets killed for fishing to feed his family, and thousands die of hunger and generations of oppresion. I once said that freedom is inherent in all of us, I believe this to be tru, I also believe that where even one of us is oppressed, none of us are free.

Humanity, a cesspool of carrion eating animals pating eachother on the back to make themselves feel good about what they have done. I understand that if anything is going to be done it must be done in the present, it is when we are alive afterall, but to not hope for a better future is death to me, someday, somewhere, someone, anyone, everyone must wake up to the horror of the present, the absolute void we have made of life, and try.

[edit] I realize most of that is very negative but it is also reality, I try to change at least my life, I have realized that trying to force my "so called elightened opinion" on others is another kind of blindness, so I do what I can and leave people to their small, small lives. Again that was negative

 

[speed]

Yet how many have already been sacrificed for the future? Millions, billions even. Look at the present situation in Iraq- so far thousands have died for the price of an illusory future. DOes one think that one would rather have a american style gov in place- or clean water, order, and electricity- Ill take order, water and electricity over the prospect of a american run gov if I was an Iraqi. These ideas of the future, and ideals hold true with the communists ( lets die for the coming worker state), the nazis( lets die for a new german empire) , every nationalistic, or religious based war. Nowadays, it seems the future is invading every aspect of my life- if i go to a baseball game I get searche- becauseI might be a terrorist- If I go to the big Labor day fireworks, Im not allowed to bring anything with me, including an umbrella- this is the price of the future.

Yes, I do support change, but the change needs to be proactive, all change happens in the present not the future, and generally change that takes place, never has the outcome is was meant to have.

Its good we disagree, its been a while since Ive had a meaningful argument on this board.

 

[AjDeath]

Yet how many have already been sacrificed for the future? Millions, billions even. Look at the present situation in Iraq- so far thousands have died for the price of an illusory future. DOes one think that one would rather have a american style gov in place- or clean water, order, and electricity- Ill take order, water and electricity over the prospect of a american run gov if I was an Iraqi. These ideas of the future, and ideals hold true with the communists ( lets die for the coming worker state), the nazis( lets die for a new german empire) , every nationalistic, or religious based war. Nowadays, it seems the future is invading every aspect of my life- if i go to a baseball game I get searche- becauseI might be a terrorist- If I go to the big Labor day fireworks, Im not allowed to bring anything with me, including an umbrella- this is the price of the future.

You talk of the future that those who wish to control will allow us, I am saying that the future is yours, no matter what, I am the type of person that will die before being enslaved, I am not talking about dying for a percieved future goal, I am talking about being given the choice of to live in stagnation and the mire of third rate humanity or dying free with a clean concience and no regrets, I will die in freedom without a second thought, it is that important to me. Fettered in life or chainless in death,(not suicide mind you) I will choose freedom. Like Warrel Dane said in the song Behind Four Walls, "They may take your freedom, but they will never take your mind." That may sound extreme, and hey, I admit it is extreme but I am the type of person who takes everything to the maximum level it can go, that is why I do not do drugs, I would simply immerse my life in them. I practically quit drinking because it got way out of hand. I don't believe I am an addictive personality, it is just that if I do somehitng, I do it all the way.

Yes, I do support change, but the change needs to be proactive, all change happens in the present not the future, and generally change that takes place, never has the outcome is was meant to have.

Ah, the old rule, actions you take no matter what you wish the outcome always have outcomes that you can think of, and a hundred more you can't and they all happen. Ces't la vie. That is my personal rule of life. But you cannot let it effect the decisions you make.

Its good we disagree, its been a while since Ive had a meaningful argument on this board.

I get into arguments all the time I make no pretensions about being hyper opinionated and an asshole. And people get pissed at me because I tend to meander, hey what can I say, I love to write.

 

[speed]

die before you are enslaved- you already are enslaved- haha

 

[AjDeath]

As I have said before, freedom is inherent, it can't be taken away from you unless you willingly give it away. Maybe it came out too seriously but nothing against you Speed, I will stop talking about these subjects for awhile, I believe what I want to, the gov't can't take that away from me.

*slips into the message bosrd shadows*

 

[SADUDE]

Call me selfish but I would prefer to enjoy the fruits of my labor. I will not sacrafice myself for the future, so someone else sometime might have a chance at accheiving utopia. I will try as much as possible not to contribute to the ways i deem corrupt. I will play society's game as much as I have to to get what I want from it. That is how I think.

 

[speed]

I'll add words of wisdom from my boy Epicurus-paraphrased from the few fragments left of his works " Since the is, like all else, a temporary combination of ever-changing atoms, death, which is merely the dissolution of that combination, brings a complete and final end to consciousness. The atoms, of course, continue to exist, but the soul as an individual existence is no more. Since there can be neither reward or punishment after death, man's highest good must be sought in life.