Anette

[Bianca74]

I guess I was just wondering about it since Anette has said that she was quite surprised, when checking some comments on youtube, how many of them were like "we want Tarja back". So to some degree I'm sure that no matter how self-confident she gets, it still hurts to read mean stuff about yourself. I just wonder if you ever really get used to it. I guess not, unless you live in a bubble.
But the main thing is that she really can sing, and sounds great. I can't wait to see them live again!

 

[BaraHime]

In regards to the range thing. I am quite sure Anette has not hit her absolute low yet, so I'm sure she can span three octaves, though yes, her three are situated lower than Tarja's, which, to me is a great thing! I hate those shrill high notes... My Kingdom for a contralto! They all seem to have gone into hiding since everyone seems to want little squeaky sopranos these days be it in "regular" music or the opera... It's a tragedy. But Anette's golden low notes are very nice indeed! Not the dark velvety lows I like most, but awesome nonetheless.

 

[Taimi]

First of all, ANETTE is the one that mentioned having high blood pressure and major kidney issues. And any extra bit of weight AND extreme amounts of exercise CAN cause heart attacks, especially in a recovering anorexic(which Anette IS) And also, there's no way she's a soprano. She does NOT have the lightness of tone. She's an alto. And this is coming from the person studying voice in college, AND 2 professors that hold doctorates!

 

[C.]

^True; that's what killed Karen Carpenter, the weight she gained recovering from her anorexia. After living with such extreme weight loss for so long, her heart couldn't handle it and she died.

 

[BaraHime]

I don't know, are you sure she's a real contralto? Her lows don't seem to be the right color, or low enough, really. And her highs should be much shinier shouldn't they? There are times when she seems like she may be, but her highs just seem too smooth for a true contralto. I've always pegged her for a Mezzo who's more solid on the lower end. But I really don't think her color is right for a contralto... But then I'm not the one studying it. I have always understood that a true Contralto has very heavy low notes with a velvety sound. Anette can manage that to some degree, but it sounds like she's stretching a bit when she does and her color seems to be more golden than the violet one would expect from a true Contralto. Also, they're supposed to be very shiny at their upper limits, Anette sounds light, not full Soprano light, as you said, but not the shininess I'd expect from a Contralto. Also, Contraltos should be able to use their chest voice for nearly all but their absolute apex, and Anette struggles with getting very high at all with it from what I've heard. That seems to be why they don't perform Cadence live, because she has to use her chest voice all the way through, it's not THAT high for her, so if she had proper training as a Contralto she should be able to handle it. Hell, I can do it pretty comfortably, (though I have no talent ) and I can reach "Love Me Tender" low notes. And don't start, Elvis is the king.
Anette could be a Contralto, if she is, what I think happened is that she was trained to push her voice up to seem like a Mezzo, or even a regular Soprano because as I said above, everyone shuns Contraltos because they have horrible taste. Many real Contraltos are taught like that these days because everyone wants Minnie Mouse to sing for them... I sing with the boys and I enjoy it. Roy Kahn and Elvis are way more fun to sing with anyway.

 

[Mooki]

I'm pretty sure I remember reading some article where Anette said her voice changed, got a bit lower after she had her first child. It was something along those lines, but don't quote me. However if that is true, couldn't that have an impact on why um, there seems to be this confusion about what category she falls into? Maybe she could reach higher notes in the past and she still has that soprano tone colour, but because of natural changes in her voice it is now more difficult for her to hit higher notes because it doesn't come as naturally? Idk, I'm not an expert on this, just speculating. Feel free to correct me.

 

[BaraHime]

^ A Contralto meets a voice instructer:

Instructor: Here, sing this so I can get an idea of you voice

Contralto: *sings*

I: Oh.... You're... One of those... Well, uh... Don't worry my dear, we can fix you... This way... Oh dear, oh dear...

... This may very well be what happened to Anette. I can hear a hint of a Contralto's color in her from time to time, but she seems more like a Mezzo at other times... She was likely trained as a Mezzo - Taught to switch to her head voice much sooner than a Contralto normally would, to use the techniques used by Mezzos... And if she spent enough time practicing a Mezzo's sound, her color may have been altered to seem more Mezzo-ish by that.

But yes, as you said, voices can change, and even just aging will make a voice lower usually. So it could be any number of things. Personally, I'd peg her a a Mezzo with a strong lower range, or a Contralto who's voice was mugged by society... Well, her voice as a Contralto was anyway, her voice overall is nice.

 

[Mooki]

Damn this pesky society and its lack of respect for contraltos! But aren't voice instructors supposed to make the best of one's natural voice qualities and not mould them to fit what the instructor thinks is "right" just because they like it that way? That's what I'd assume vocal teachers would do anyway. :S But yeah like you said, the majority of people seem to assume that all female vocalists should be sopranos, meaning they should be able to hit high, screechy notes or something. Idk…there seems to be such a focus on how high one can sign as opposed to focusing on the other qualities that make a good voice.

While we're on the topic, can you suggest any good contralto singers, just so I have a better idea of what we're talking about?

 

[BaraHime]

Contraltos are the rarest female voice, so there aren't many of them. Annie Lennox, Cher, Amy Winehouse, that chick that played Dorothy in the Wizzard of OZ was a beautiful Contralto... Adele is also a Contralto, though her voice is a bit high for one, she's a good example of the dark lows and shiny highs I was mentioning. Those are only a few of course, the further back you go the more you'll find as they were more popular then. They're still very popular in Soul music. There are some Contraltos who are Opera singers also, but I don't know them as well since full-blown opera is a bit much for me. >.<

The reason an instructor would want to alter a Contralto's voice upward toward a Mezzo's is because of the fact that Contraltos are so rare. There are very few parts in the classical Operas for Contraltos, and most are evil witches and the like. Here is an article that give some insight into the plight pf the Contralto: http://www.metguild.org/operanews/_archive/122896/contraltos.122896.html It really pisses me off because I was always ridiculed when I was young by peers and adults alike for my "ugly man-ish voice." I dreamed of being a singer when I was young and everyone around me just crushed my dreams completely... I went for years absolutely hating music because it was so painful. And it was because of people like that who tell women they're only good if they can sing high. It makes me so angry I could cry even now.

 

[Nealennia]

I have seen Anette live over a week ago. She had really made some major improvements. Now she at least hits the notes right most of the time, but I still notice some small issues that only a vocal coach can address. There's nothing wrong with how she exactly sounds, she hits the notes right as I said and she can sing quite constantly throughout the show. The only issue I notice is, and probably I notice this because I do exactly the same thing, that she does not finish her notes right. She starts them right, but she still ornaments or 'squeezes' her vocal cords on the notes that must be held longer. Nothing wrong with the ornaments, although they show she still does not know how to hold the notes, but with the 'squeezing' (by lack of a better word) there is something wrong, because it strains the vocal cords. It's a very small thing, and I think many just won't notice it, but I do because I often make the exact same mistake. This is, however, something a vocal coach can address and it comes down to breath support, something that you usually come to feel out of the blue while you probably were not even thinking about your breath support. But I acknowledge her major improvement and maybe she will come to feel that click I just described, which will result in even more improvement!

And I love the article about the contraltos. In my belting range, I started out as a contralto, but my voice has been pushed to go higher. In my head range, I was however a mezzo, but with the right technique I hit coloratura notes with no problem, while the belting range still gives me difficulties every now and then. I wonder how my voice would have been if I had received contralto training ...

 

[Mooki]

I'm so sorry to hear about your experience, BaraHime. That's just&#8230;ugh, people disgust me in cases like this. Where do they think they got the authority to ruin someone's dreams, to ruin something they love, just because of their idiocy and ignorance?

Aaaah, I LOVE Annie Lenox's voice! I was never a big fan of Amy Winehouse, but I always found her voice really unique and so memorable. (Shouldn't that be more important rather than how high you can sing? -___-). I can see now how those voices would be classified as contraltos, I just never really thought about it before.

I find it sad that instructors would want to alter a natural contralto's voice because they are "rare". To me it would be more logical to KEEP them because they are so rare and make more parts for their type of voice. But what would I know, I don't have a formal education in music so it's not like my opinion would matter to anyone. XD Now don't get me wrong, I like sopranos too. I like ALL voices and I couldn't care less about what category they belong to as long as they sound good to my ear. But no one should be made to feel inferior and to hate their natural talent because some idiots out there have a very narrow-minded idea of what is good or what is the right way of doing something; what a "proper" female voice is.

I think that's one of the things that annoys me a lot about metal fans, specifically fans of female fronted bands. So many of them seem to be fixated on the idea that real female vocalists MUST be able to hit high notes and get better and better at this, album after album, to be deemed a quality singer. I wonder, do we hold male metal singers to the same standards?

@Nealennia: I notice she still does the ornaments too, from the Youtube videos I've seen. XD I don't have a major issue with those, but I think it would be good to see her improve on this. I mean wouldn't it be satisfying to her as a singer to have a better ability to hold notes?

Shit, shit, shit! I'm sorry, I wasn't meant to double post that, I was trying to edit it, but idk&#8230;I got logged out in the process and everything went haywire.

 

[C.]

It really pisses me off because I was always ridiculed when I was young by peers and adults alike for my "ugly man-ish voice." I dreamed of being a singer when I was young and everyone around me just crushed my dreams completely... I went for years absolutely hating music because it was so painful. And it was because of people like that who tell women they're only good if they can sing high. It makes me so angry I could cry even now.

That sucks!!! There are some good low-range vocalists out there, like Helen from Flowing Tears. A great example about how the femme-metal scene doesn't always have to be about the high voices.

Mooki: I can delete your double-post for you if you want.

 

[Mooki]

@C: I would appreciate that, thanks.

 

[C.]

^Presto!

Just like it never happened.

 

[BaraHime]

^ Now why the hell is that wizard smiley not in the little box? He's awesome. To stay kind of on topic... Uh, Anette would think he's cute too?

 

[C.]

^I don't know; I just saw him online somewhere, copied the link, and put "img" tags around it when I want to use it.

Sure, why wouldn't Anette think he's cute? She's used to Tuomas and his top hat, right?

 

[Traxan]

Isn't Christina from Lacuna Coil a contralto?

On the issue of range, it is grossly overrated, and if anything, more of a chance to get into trouble. It's not your range it's how you use it. Shania Twain has next to none and yet her fans adored her. She worked with what she had. Frank Sinatra had almost no range. he had no problems. Christina Aguilera and Mariah Carey have tremendous range and they are unlistenable because of their uncontrollable melisma (google it).

Then there's willingness to take risks. I don't believe for a minute Tarja would have done "Scareytale" or "Slow Love Slow" or if she did she would have done them opera style.

This really has gotten old, after six years. The OUAN book made it abundantly clear why Tarja was dismissed, and that she will not be back. Tuomas has made it clear Anette is the singer and the band all like her. If the whiners won't shut up about after all this time, throw them off the board. I'm tired of this already.

 

[C.]

^Well, I don't believe in "throwing people off the board" for having a difference of opinion. People are free to feel as they wish, and everyone's opinions are welcome here.

But I do understand what you mean; it's been nearly 7 years since Tarja was given her walking papers; if those folks haven't gotten over it by now, it's very likely they never will. The way I see it, there are plenty of bands keeping alive the operatic vocals within metal, so go support those bands, rather than whine about what was and will never be. Or if those same people are so devoted to Tarja, go support her solo career. The style of music she's doing isn't *that* dissimilar from Nightwish, so they can even pretend for a while that nothing has changed.

I think Mooki said it best a few posts back; if these people spent these last 7 years actually doing something with themselves instead of complaining, who knows? Maybe they could have used that energy to form a band in the vein of Tarja-era Nightwish that was much better than the original. But since these people chose another path, I guess we'll never know.

 

[Mooki]

If the letter is anything to go by, Tarja would NOT have been around for this album anyway, so I really think it's time to move on. It's very overdue.

@Traxan: Heh, you get me, man. I definitely agree that it's about how you use your voice. Some male vocalists I like have very little range and in comparison to others, not much power in their voice either. But damn, they make themselves heard! Their voice is appealing and stays in your mind precisely because they know how to use it to the best of its abilities and they know how to make music that goes with such a voice.

I don't hate Christina Aguilera, in fact there's a few songs I really enjoy, but like you said, she has a problem with uncontrollable melissma. It's sooo grating on the nerves after a while because what could've been a good song becomes unberable due to her overdoing it.

 

[C.]

If the letter is anything to go by, Tarja would NOT have been around for this album anyway, so I really think it's time to move on. It's very overdue.

No kidding. I mean, I have to think that these people are just being plain selfish and are not really thinking of what is best for the band at all. *Both* parties seem to be happier without each other, they're each making the kind of music they want, and have their own respective levels of success at it. I don't think either one of them are wondering what it would have been like if they'd stayed together. If these same people cared about the band as much as their self-righteous attitude conveys, they would see that. And who's to say that if that incarnation had stayed together, that the sound wouldn't have changed anyway? Fans were complaining about the lessening of Tarja's "opera voice" since Century Child. So if music is a natural progression and evolution of things, it's very likely that Tarja would have become the "pop singer" that everyone accuses Anette of being. It's clear that Tuomas wanted to steer away from the operatic vocals, or he would have hired another opera singer. So for people to think somehow that Tarja-era Nightwish would have crystallized into this perfect thing, never would have changed and would have always stayed the same...well, bless them for their naïveté anyway.